Good news - I've successfully tested a new web host with the kiosk system and it seems to be working fine. I have not had time to do extensive testing, but the system is on the way to working again. It will take a day or two before the LL servers "catch up" with where the new website is, but they will just start working again... soon.
I decided that waiting on LL to fix this problem was simply too risky. It's been a week already, that's one week too long for the whole system to be down. The solution basically involved a ton of work to evaluate, find, and configure a new web hosting site, which means, it's a new IP address that, luckily, the LL servers don't have a problem communicating with.
Does this mean the same problem won't happen again? I have no idea, since we don't know the cause. Once LL figures this out, I suppose they will fix the problem so it doesn't bite anyone else, or me, again.
It's been a long night, I'm tired. This whole ordeal has fried my brain completely. But I think at this point the light at the end of the tunnel is rapidly approaching... it's just a matter of time before things start working again.
Welcome!
Monday, October 24, 2011
Saturday, October 22, 2011
LL Punts Me to JIRA
Got a reply back from LL support today. They said that I am not the only site affected by this problem, but gave me no details on that (which would have been extremely helpful) and that the solution is to file a JIRA. This is a significant blow and it looks like we are not out of the woods yet. I am disappointed that it took LL 5 days to tell me "file a JIRA". I have no idea how long it will take for them to investigate the new JIRA bug and fix it.
Today I tried one good potentical technical solution today (a fixed IP for you geeks out there) to no avail, that IP address is blocked by LL as well, so that didn't pan out. Plan B is to move to a new web host, which I am in the process of doing. With any luck they won't be blocked and the kiosks will just start working again.
I have created the JIRA bug and hope that all of you can govote WATCH that bug (LL ignores votes, apparently!) to show that you care about art in Second Life and don't want to see this list and all the hard work I put into it over the years go down in flames. As well as my entire SL business and reason for being here :(
I am also sending out a personal message to everyone that owns one of my kiosks, so you may be receiving that as well, with an explanation and link to the JIRA to encourage everyone affected by this server bug to go vote on the JIRA. By demonstrating that this affects a lot of people I hope we can get this bug the attention it actually deserves. Thank you.
Today I tried one good potentical technical solution today (a fixed IP for you geeks out there) to no avail, that IP address is blocked by LL as well, so that didn't pan out. Plan B is to move to a new web host, which I am in the process of doing. With any luck they won't be blocked and the kiosks will just start working again.
I have created the JIRA bug and hope that all of you can go
I am also sending out a personal message to everyone that owns one of my kiosks, so you may be receiving that as well, with an explanation and link to the JIRA to encourage everyone affected by this server bug to go vote on the JIRA. By demonstrating that this affects a lot of people I hope we can get this bug the attention it actually deserves. Thank you.
Friday, October 21, 2011
Linden Labs Shuts Me Down
Four days ago for reasons unknown, all communication between any scripted object anywhere on the grid and the IP address of my web application (that runs the Galleries of SL kiosks) at http://sasun.info stopped working. Testing shows that my web app is functioning perfectly fine and is in fact working for kiosks on the Avination grid. Avination is able to communicate to my web app, no problem. HTTP communication to other domains from the SL grid work fine. The only combination that does not work is http requests from SL to my website's IP address.
The only sensible conclusion is that either LL or my web host are blocking these http requests. A quick call to my web host confirmed that they do not block any IP addresses from their shared hosting IP addresses at all, it is up to their customers to block IP addresses on a doman-by-domain basis. In other words, if someone is trying to hack into http://sasun.info (which in fact just happened yesterday, unrelated to this case), I have to block any such offending IPs in my application myself. So... no blocking going on there.
So the obvious conclusion here is that LL is for some reason blocking all http requests from any and all of their servers (which means, the entire grid) to my web app. It may be possible that there is something in between that is blocking these, or some technical issue on LL's end that's not blocking them on purpose but some bad side-effect of the recent OS upgrades (hint, hint, LL) that's stopping http requests from working to my domain (and possibly many others, I have no idea).
All of this is perfecty understandable, though unfortunate. Software is buggy, problems crop up, upgrades cause problems, gremlins sneak into the wires and make things go crazy. I may be just the unlucky victim of bad luck somewhere between LL and my web host.
Or am I? It turns out I am not the only IP address that has been blocked by LL. One person I talked to had a very similar story and their solution was a lot of work on their part to move to a different IP address. For me, that would involve quite a bit of expense and work but is something I am going to investigate today since there is no way for me, or any of the "regular" support people at LL, to even tell me what the status of my issue is.
So here is the frustrating and critical failing of LL in this whole debacle - their unbelievably bad handling of this problem so far. As soon as I filed the case I jumped onto a chat session and was politely told that they would escalate the issue to from a normal "case ticket" to a "technical assistance" issue, meaning that it goes to the real support people that don't solve the stupid questions. Great! It's obviously critical to me and a bunch of other SL business owners so this should get fixed soon, right?
Days go by and I hear absolutely nothing. Every day I start a chat session to find out what is going on, and every time I tell them how critical this issue is and how vital it is that I get some kind of update or acknowledgement that it's being looked into. It turns out that the front-line chat support people have NO WAY to communicate with the "technical assistance" people working on any particular support case. From today's chat session:
Furthermore I was told that the technical assistance cases are unprioritized - there is no way to prioritize them. So every non-critical issue is in line with every severe "my business is down" case and is prioritized fist come, first serve. This is a disaster! Any support business in the universe needs to prioritize cases and get to the high-impact, "server down" cases first!
I can guarantee you that LL's own internal IT support department, for example, doesn't prioritize strictly by first-come-first-serve basis. So if an LL intern requests a different colored mouse from the IT department, he's ahead of the CEO whose video card died and is stopping him from getting his job done? I seriously doubt it!!
So why in heavens name would they refuse to prioritize customer cases and make the critical cases that are going to have wide-spread negative effects on the success of Second Life (there are products and content creators that falling into this category, obviously) higher priority? In effect what they are saying is that if LL stops your entire business from functioning, we don't consider that more important than anything else, so you'll need to wait a week for us to get around to it. Great!
I can't begin to express how frustrated I am with LL. I have been sweating over this the whole time, and working like crazy to supply customers with some level of functionality for their broken products. I'm obsessively checking to see if things are working again, since it drives me absolutely nuts to have so many customers unhappy and unable to use my products like this.
I have done some work to port my kiosk network to other grids such as avination and inWorldz, which so far as been very successful. This incident has convinced me I need to step up those efforts so that I can help them compete with LL as much as possible. Having a list of art galleries on avination, inWorldz, and other grids would be very cool and help them grow, not to mention put some products up for sale on those grids as well.
Furthermore I'm taking a hard look at my involvement in such things as the Linden Endowment for the Arts, which I put a rediculous amount of work into for no benefit of my own. I am boycotting any such voluteer work for a company that won't even give me the courtesy of a "hi we got your issue and are working on it, sorry about that" response until such time as this issue is fixed. If that is never, so be it. I don't know why I should work so hard to benefit a company that when the rubber hits the road, really doesn't care, and if they do, they have completely failed to show it.
The only sensible conclusion is that either LL or my web host are blocking these http requests. A quick call to my web host confirmed that they do not block any IP addresses from their shared hosting IP addresses at all, it is up to their customers to block IP addresses on a doman-by-domain basis. In other words, if someone is trying to hack into http://sasun.info (which in fact just happened yesterday, unrelated to this case), I have to block any such offending IPs in my application myself. So... no blocking going on there.
So the obvious conclusion here is that LL is for some reason blocking all http requests from any and all of their servers (which means, the entire grid) to my web app. It may be possible that there is something in between that is blocking these, or some technical issue on LL's end that's not blocking them on purpose but some bad side-effect of the recent OS upgrades (hint, hint, LL) that's stopping http requests from working to my domain (and possibly many others, I have no idea).
All of this is perfecty understandable, though unfortunate. Software is buggy, problems crop up, upgrades cause problems, gremlins sneak into the wires and make things go crazy. I may be just the unlucky victim of bad luck somewhere between LL and my web host.
Or am I? It turns out I am not the only IP address that has been blocked by LL. One person I talked to had a very similar story and their solution was a lot of work on their part to move to a different IP address. For me, that would involve quite a bit of expense and work but is something I am going to investigate today since there is no way for me, or any of the "regular" support people at LL, to even tell me what the status of my issue is.
So here is the frustrating and critical failing of LL in this whole debacle - their unbelievably bad handling of this problem so far. As soon as I filed the case I jumped onto a chat session and was politely told that they would escalate the issue to from a normal "case ticket" to a "technical assistance" issue, meaning that it goes to the real support people that don't solve the stupid questions. Great! It's obviously critical to me and a bunch of other SL business owners so this should get fixed soon, right?
Days go by and I hear absolutely nothing. Every day I start a chat session to find out what is going on, and every time I tell them how critical this issue is and how vital it is that I get some kind of update or acknowledgement that it's being looked into. It turns out that the front-line chat support people have NO WAY to communicate with the "technical assistance" people working on any particular support case. From today's chat session:
You: It has been 4 days and affects well over 6,000 kiosks across the grid. Is there any way to get an ETA when this issue will be fixed? Every single scripted object (approximately 7,000) across the grid that communicates to my web site has not been working for 4 days. I've been in the dark this whole time.Uh, what? Support team A has no way to communicate with support team B? Seriously, really, the live chat support people have no access to support information or any way to communicate with the technical assistance people?
RebeccaH: I do apologize but I don't have access to the technical support operations information.
You: so you guys are cut off from them, there's no way to update customers on what is going on?
RebeccaH: I'm sorry but that is correct, I don't have access to their information or a way to communicate with them.
Furthermore I was told that the technical assistance cases are unprioritized - there is no way to prioritize them. So every non-critical issue is in line with every severe "my business is down" case and is prioritized fist come, first serve. This is a disaster! Any support business in the universe needs to prioritize cases and get to the high-impact, "server down" cases first!
I can guarantee you that LL's own internal IT support department, for example, doesn't prioritize strictly by first-come-first-serve basis. So if an LL intern requests a different colored mouse from the IT department, he's ahead of the CEO whose video card died and is stopping him from getting his job done? I seriously doubt it!!
So why in heavens name would they refuse to prioritize customer cases and make the critical cases that are going to have wide-spread negative effects on the success of Second Life (there are products and content creators that falling into this category, obviously) higher priority? In effect what they are saying is that if LL stops your entire business from functioning, we don't consider that more important than anything else, so you'll need to wait a week for us to get around to it. Great!
I can't begin to express how frustrated I am with LL. I have been sweating over this the whole time, and working like crazy to supply customers with some level of functionality for their broken products. I'm obsessively checking to see if things are working again, since it drives me absolutely nuts to have so many customers unhappy and unable to use my products like this.
I have done some work to port my kiosk network to other grids such as avination and inWorldz, which so far as been very successful. This incident has convinced me I need to step up those efforts so that I can help them compete with LL as much as possible. Having a list of art galleries on avination, inWorldz, and other grids would be very cool and help them grow, not to mention put some products up for sale on those grids as well.
Furthermore I'm taking a hard look at my involvement in such things as the Linden Endowment for the Arts, which I put a rediculous amount of work into for no benefit of my own. I am boycotting any such voluteer work for a company that won't even give me the courtesy of a "hi we got your issue and are working on it, sorry about that" response until such time as this issue is fixed. If that is never, so be it. I don't know why I should work so hard to benefit a company that when the rubber hits the road, really doesn't care, and if they do, they have completely failed to show it.
Wednesday, August 24, 2011
Hot This Month
One thing I have added to the list just recently is a "Hot This Month" checkbox that shows galleries that are getting a lot of ratings in the past 30 days. It's a nice snapshot of which galleries are movin' and shakin', maybe they had an event recently and garnered a bunch of new ratings, or it's by an artist that's gotten some notoriety lately and is getting visitors, whatever it is, people are visiting and rating. It's experimental but so far I like it - please let me know what you think!
Wednesday, May 25, 2011
Art Galleries of SL facelift
I have finally done a full on redesign of the Galleries of SL list. The more you learn the more you realize how much better you could have done something you made in the past so... time for a makeover!
Leave your comments here on this blog. If you'd like all the gory details about the redesign, read on!
The intent of the redesign was to make something much more pleasing to the eye, yet still functional and intuitive to use.
First, the website has a distinct 4-color scheme (a tetrad of some warm and cold colors to contrast) and a simple 4-color bar logo used to present a pattern to the eye. The site is laid out in a simple grid format, and is fluid - if your page gets narrower, the columns resize, then the site will pop into a 2-column format, so it looks good no matter what size browser you use. Try it!
The options are now arranged nicely in 4 boxes on top so it's much easier to see where they are and set them.
For you web types out there, it uses pure CSS, HTML, and jQuery so it loads fast. I converted it from an aspx page and got rid of all the server-side code and replaced it all with javascript and jQuery. It uses ajax to get more galleries to display when you scroll to the bottom, so there is no longer a "page size" setting, you can just scroll forever! It does not use postbacks like the old .aspx page did, it's all ajax, fast and light(er). I'm using a simple fluid column layout for the grid rather than a fixed width.
I am using some modern browser features such as fill gradients, nice rounded corners, and dropshadows, so if you are running an old browser, or IE (god forbid), the experience may not be as nice, so UPGRADE your browser!! So many good websites are taking advantage of HTML5, CSS3, and modern features, you're missing out if you have an old browser. And avoid IE like the plague, it's just NOT compatible with so many modern browser features. Or upgrade to IE9 at least, it's not as horrid, but the gallery list will still not look right, for sure, due to the missing feature support.
The gallery reviews are still there, click on the images to get a popup. I plan on doing some more thinking on the review presentation, possibly redesigning that simple dialog box, but that works pretty well as it is.
I also plan on replacing the "Slurl" line with a simple and familiar orange TP button. I think people don't care what the slurl address text is, they just want to go. Having a TP button will remove some text, which will de-clutter the display a bit more which is a Good Thing.
If I do decide to revamp the rating system (see previous post) the rating stars will be replaced with a simple display of the current "like" count for that gallery, and perhaps a "likes/month" number to help sort them more appropriately (or perhaps some weighted combo of both, not sure yet).
So far I'm very happy with the new site, it looks much better and more pleasing, and much less cluttered to the eye. Less like a spreadsheet and more like a list of Art Galleries :)
Leave your comments here on this blog. If you'd like all the gory details about the redesign, read on!
The intent of the redesign was to make something much more pleasing to the eye, yet still functional and intuitive to use.
First, the website has a distinct 4-color scheme (a tetrad of some warm and cold colors to contrast) and a simple 4-color bar logo used to present a pattern to the eye. The site is laid out in a simple grid format, and is fluid - if your page gets narrower, the columns resize, then the site will pop into a 2-column format, so it looks good no matter what size browser you use. Try it!
The options are now arranged nicely in 4 boxes on top so it's much easier to see where they are and set them.
For you web types out there, it uses pure CSS, HTML, and jQuery so it loads fast. I converted it from an aspx page and got rid of all the server-side code and replaced it all with javascript and jQuery. It uses ajax to get more galleries to display when you scroll to the bottom, so there is no longer a "page size" setting, you can just scroll forever! It does not use postbacks like the old .aspx page did, it's all ajax, fast and light(er). I'm using a simple fluid column layout for the grid rather than a fixed width.
I am using some modern browser features such as fill gradients, nice rounded corners, and dropshadows, so if you are running an old browser, or IE (god forbid), the experience may not be as nice, so UPGRADE your browser!! So many good websites are taking advantage of HTML5, CSS3, and modern features, you're missing out if you have an old browser. And avoid IE like the plague, it's just NOT compatible with so many modern browser features. Or upgrade to IE9 at least, it's not as horrid, but the gallery list will still not look right, for sure, due to the missing feature support.
The gallery reviews are still there, click on the images to get a popup. I plan on doing some more thinking on the review presentation, possibly redesigning that simple dialog box, but that works pretty well as it is.
I also plan on replacing the "Slurl" line with a simple and familiar orange TP button. I think people don't care what the slurl address text is, they just want to go. Having a TP button will remove some text, which will de-clutter the display a bit more which is a Good Thing.
If I do decide to revamp the rating system (see previous post) the rating stars will be replaced with a simple display of the current "like" count for that gallery, and perhaps a "likes/month" number to help sort them more appropriately (or perhaps some weighted combo of both, not sure yet).
So far I'm very happy with the new site, it looks much better and more pleasing, and much less cluttered to the eye. Less like a spreadsheet and more like a list of Art Galleries :)
Monday, May 16, 2011
Gallery Rating System revamp
I have been doing some thinking on the current gallery rating "5 star" system and I am seriously thinking of doing a complete overhaul some time soon.
I would like to dispense with the star ratings and instead have a simple Like model, similar to Facebook. The star rating graphic on the kiosks and tour HUDs will be replaced with a simple "Like" button and if people like your gallery, they can click it.
One advantage is that it's very simple and will match the same model that LL uses on the Destination guide.
I will convert all 4 and 5 star ratings to a "Like" in the new system when I make the change and simply delete all 1, 2, and 3 star ratings. On the gallery list page (which is also going through a complete redesign btw) all you will see is the number of Likes, just like facebook does. There will no longer be 1-5 star votes - only likes.
This means that a gallery that does a good job of getting people to Like them on their gallery kiosk will be high on the list, so it's more a simple numbers game than trying to get 5-star votes and no bad votes. The current system is just too problematic in that the vast majority of the votes are 5 star votes, so one 4 star vote can send someone tumbling far down the list. In effect, everyone is giving galleries either 5 stars or nothing already. The big difference in the sorting order is that the raw number of votes will now be very important, and in the current system it is much less important than the average star rating, which is what they are sorted on now. The current system uses a Bayesian rating system which "penalizes" galleries with a low number of ratings so that a single 5-star rating won't plop you at the top of the gallery list.
This will also completely remove any griefing done by people rating galleries 1 star for personal reasons, and there are, for reasons I can't comprehend, a few people that give out nothing but 1 star ratings. Which is just completely pointless and it pollutes the database with garbage. Why go visit galleries if you just hate them all and give them lousy ratings? So this will completely solve that problem too.
The new system is not perfect either, since galleries that are strategically placed in very high traffic areas will probably get more clicks than a gallery that's great but is out of the way. So both systems have their faults but I think the facebook Like model is going to work out better in the long run. I'm still gathering feedback on that idea, so it's not set in stone yet, but that's my thinking. I'd love to hear what you think!
I would like to dispense with the star ratings and instead have a simple Like model, similar to Facebook. The star rating graphic on the kiosks and tour HUDs will be replaced with a simple "Like" button and if people like your gallery, they can click it.
One advantage is that it's very simple and will match the same model that LL uses on the Destination guide.
I will convert all 4 and 5 star ratings to a "Like" in the new system when I make the change and simply delete all 1, 2, and 3 star ratings. On the gallery list page (which is also going through a complete redesign btw) all you will see is the number of Likes, just like facebook does. There will no longer be 1-5 star votes - only likes.
This means that a gallery that does a good job of getting people to Like them on their gallery kiosk will be high on the list, so it's more a simple numbers game than trying to get 5-star votes and no bad votes. The current system is just too problematic in that the vast majority of the votes are 5 star votes, so one 4 star vote can send someone tumbling far down the list. In effect, everyone is giving galleries either 5 stars or nothing already. The big difference in the sorting order is that the raw number of votes will now be very important, and in the current system it is much less important than the average star rating, which is what they are sorted on now. The current system uses a Bayesian rating system which "penalizes" galleries with a low number of ratings so that a single 5-star rating won't plop you at the top of the gallery list.
This will also completely remove any griefing done by people rating galleries 1 star for personal reasons, and there are, for reasons I can't comprehend, a few people that give out nothing but 1 star ratings. Which is just completely pointless and it pollutes the database with garbage. Why go visit galleries if you just hate them all and give them lousy ratings? So this will completely solve that problem too.
The new system is not perfect either, since galleries that are strategically placed in very high traffic areas will probably get more clicks than a gallery that's great but is out of the way. So both systems have their faults but I think the facebook Like model is going to work out better in the long run. I'm still gathering feedback on that idea, so it's not set in stone yet, but that's my thinking. I'd love to hear what you think!
Thursday, January 20, 2011
Talk at Palais "Marketing Art and Photography" Symposium
Earlier this week I did a talk on Running a Successful Art Gallery. I stole a few tidbits from previous talks on the same topic, best practices and such. Hopefully you'll find something useful here!
Big thanks to madison Arnahan who came up with the idea of the talk series and organized the whole thing. I love it!
madison Arnahan: hi all .. what a great turnout ... and I think it underscores the relevance of the topic .. and what our speaker tonight can lend to that topic
madison Arnahan: Sasun has been in the eye of the storm .. on the forefront of the battle .. what other metaphors ?
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): dead center of the cross hairs
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Leading The Parade
Sasun Steinbeck: more like Lead Clown of the Crazy Circus!
Sasun Steinbeck: and I wouldn't want it either way, you creative peeps are the best :)
madison Arnahan: Her drive to elevate art and art galleries in reknown .. Palais SL Magazine is honored to host this event and to have Sasun lead it off .. who else could fill the bill . so please welcome Sasun Steinbeck
Sasun Steinbeck: aw thank you!
Em Larsson: clap clap clap
Skylarian Isachenko: Waves a sparkler
Devilana Nirvana claps and whistles
Lyrilen Moonshadow applause
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks again to madison for putting this whole series together
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Applause!!
Sasun Steinbeck: we've got some other kick-ass speakers for later talks in the series
Sasun Steinbeck: well welcome everyone, I know lots of you are very experienced gallery owners
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm not going to stand her and drone on for 60 minutes, I'd like to get LOTS of comments from all of you
Sasun Steinbeck: since you have a lot of good stuff to share and best practices, I know
Sasun Steinbeck: so chime in with your thoughts or tidbits please!!
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd like to put in a plug for my group as we get things rolling here. I want people to know that help with this topic is available from quite a few sources - your fellow gallery owners are always willing to help, and asking questions of this sort are exactly what the Art Gallery Owner's group is for, so please join and ask about how to build and manage your gallery :)
Sasun Steinbeck: over to my right of the stage are 4 little kiosks, the one on the right will help you join the group if you are interested
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): being an "experienced SL Gallery Owner" is kinda like a homeless person being a proud box owner
Sasun Steinbeck: hehehe :D
Armany Thursday: smiles
Callipygian Christensen waits for someone to say ohh..with only 42 groups I am afraid I don't have room
Em Larsson: he he he
Armany Thursday: lololololol
Sasun Steinbeck: if you are a gallery owner and NOT on my gallery list at http://sasun.info/artgalleriesofSL.aspx, click the 2nd kiosk to the left of that one, t hat will give you a kiosk requester
Sasun Steinbeck: so that's my first tip on being a successful gallery owner
Sasun Steinbeck: get on the list! Get a kiosk, set it up, and you will immediately be added to the list
Skylarian Isachenko: Yep, very helpful
Sasun Steinbeck: once you're on the list, work those gallery ratings to your advantage
Sasun Steinbeck: encourage people that say nice things to you to rate your gallery! that pushes you up the list
Sasun Steinbeck: the galleries on the list are sorted by rating, so it's good to move up the list
Sasun Steinbeck: if someone says your art sucks, don't mention the rating stars! lol
Skylarian Isachenko: Its a great way to spend an after noon also, just clicking through the galleries
Sasun Steinbeck: while I'm talking about the kiosks, I have two more, with some freebies in them, one is my free art resizer, click it to get one, and to the left of that is a little kit you can use to make kiosks to advertise events
Sasun Steinbeck: the latter is open source and free, so look at the scripts to learn a few tricks and pass it along to others
Sasun Steinbeck: so... onto the main topic
Sasun Steinbeck: how to be a successful gallery owner
Sasun Steinbeck: obviously the definition of success here is important
Sasun Steinbeck: For many artists, just the fact that people want to view their work is more than enough. What is important to you? Your personal statement? Cash flow? Maybe both? That's OK, but you should think about what it is so you can set expectations for yourself. If you take the time to nurture and maintain your gallery, it will bring you the satisfaction you desire - you will only get out of it what you put into it.
Skylarian Isachenko: Meeting your personal goals as a gallery or artist is one
Sasun Steinbeck: yes exactly
Sasun Steinbeck: and those are for you to set
Sasun Steinbeck: if you are happy making no sales, and you are tickled pink by talking to people that love your art, you'll be happier than someone trying to earn a lot of money selling art
Sasun Steinbeck: because trust me, you will NOT make a lot of money! If you want money, you're in the wrong business!
Sasun Steinbeck: But if you create art for the love of it, and you pour yourself into it, maybe the money will come. But you need to be in a position where you just don't care if it does or not, since it won't at first, I can guarantee that! Eventually you can work on the marketing aspects and get help from others to do that, and next thing you know you'll be making some money.
Skylarian Isachenko: It can however be very useful as a tool to get people out there looking at your RL art and you can and do make sales there.
Sasun Steinbeck: absolutely true
Sasun Steinbeck: It's a great way to cross-pollinate between your Deviant Art page, or commercial art sales website. Just the other day I was talking to someone that made a RL sale from an SL customer, so it definitely happens. Make sure your customers are aware of the fact that they can buy your art for RL too, and where your website is. Take advantage of the free visitor counter in your Galleries of SL kiosk to give out notecards with your website on it or an email address to contact if they are interested in buying something in RL.
Skylarian Isachenko: I am making quite a few sales of rl calendars for the St Tiggywinkle animal hospital via the Isle of Wyrms
Skylarian Isachenko: created from the avatars of the dragons, doing pretty well actually
Sasun Steinbeck: The Gallery listing also lets you configure a website link with your listing, so people can click it and go to your website, hopefully make a sale or two from the traffic
Sasun Steinbeck: So as a new gallery owner, what are some of the key things you can do to "get plugged in" and start down the path to a happy and successful career as an art gallery owner?
Sasun Steinbeck: I've got a few ideas and would love to hear yours :)
Devilana Nirvana: is that listing solely for art galleries or also for photo studios that have a gallery to the front of their shop?
Skylarian Isachenko: That does bring up a point you might want to make clear to people, because sl has the whole anonomus thing, explain to them if, its true of course that their information cannot be be connected back to their sl selves
Sasun Steinbeck: I would consider a photo studio with a gallery to be an art gallery, sure
Sasun Steinbeck: yes that is a good point
Sasun Steinbeck: if you want to make RL sales, then don't count on staying anonymous, is my advice
Skylarian Isachenko: I have complete transparnece, rl and sl, but customers like to stay hidden
Skylarian Isachenko: so I use a service that sells my work for me
Jewle Rae: Frankly, almost every aspect of SL is "Art"
Skylarian Isachenko: I never see who buys stuff
Sasun Steinbeck: yes absolutely, so that's a real good thing to think about. you know all those annoying "privacy notices" you get in the mail from banks and whatnot
Armany Thursday: so true, Jewle
Lyrilen Moonshadow: I made that point just the other day Jewle
Sasun Steinbeck: it would be great to make a simple one so that people know exactly where the boundaries are when it comes to them puchasing RL art
Em Larsson: What service do you use, Skylarian?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes make it clear that, if you have things set up to where you never see thier RL info if you make a sale, that potential purchasers know that
Sasun Steinbeck: so they will feel safe to buy something
Skylarian Isachenko: Deviant Art Prints, mostly, some Zazzle
Em Larsson: Thanks.
Adair Chauveau: Selling art online by PayPal helps to keep both seller and buyer private.
Sasun Steinbeck: very good point, yes. They will see your paypal email though, I suppose
Sasun Steinbeck: and vice-versa
Adair Chauveau: yes
Skylarian Isachenko: yes, and you get their shipping address too
Sasun Steinbeck: privacy is a very good thing to understand and make clear, one way or another
Sasun Steinbeck: yes
Sasun Steinbeck: even still, there are many people that want to buy from you in RL and will do so
Sasun Steinbeck: so if that's a goal of yours, put some thought into marketing that to potential customers in SL
Skylarian Isachenko: I do get those that buy from me direct because they want my signature, and then its pretty obvious its open informaiton
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Sasun , Have you some advice on how we can have our Gallery better known ?
Sasun Steinbeck: that's a great question
Sasun Steinbeck: there are quite a few good ways
Sasun Steinbeck: I would say probably the traditional, tried-and-true method is via hosting events
Sasun Steinbeck: Events - are the key thing that help promote the gallery and bring more buyers in. If you have a huge friends list, one tactic is to just spin it like a party for friends and invite everyone in your friends list. If you know how to DJ music, or have a DJ friend, that's perfect.
Sasun Steinbeck: Another is to throw an event every time you have a change, such as a new guest artist on display or if you own a multi-gallery area, when a new artist rents a spot as a way of introduction. I would highly recommend you talk to some of the larger gallery owners about throwing events, I'm sure they will have a lot of great tips for you.
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): wine & cheese
Sasun Steinbeck: events are time-consuming, but they can be a lot of fun
Sasun Steinbeck: and doing an event from time to time will keep people coming in
Araminta Kroitschov: and you meet fantastic people
Skylarian Isachenko: Fit the event to your resources too, its not good to have people not able to get there because your venue cannot support enough agents
Sasun Steinbeck: yes absolutely, it is a great way to meet other artists and gallery owners and pump them for info :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes thank you Skylarian, good point
FreeWee Ling: I've found that most peope who come to an event are there for the party rather than the art. Good parties though.
Callipygian Christensen: Free - I avoid that by not making a music act the focus
Sasun Steinbeck: There are a lot of details to attend to. Now that I think about it, I don't really know where a checklist of things to do for an event would be
Sasun Steinbeck: I think that would be really great to have
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): indeed
Skylarian Isachenko: Each type of event has its own issues
Sasun Steinbeck: yes
Skylarian Isachenko: as IOW events planner, trust me, I know.. grins
Em Larsson: I agree with Calli though - music call actually distract people from the art.
Sasun Steinbeck: That's an interesting point, the music. I think it's been really effective in most cases to meld a music event of some sort with a visual art event
Sasun Steinbeck: for one that brings in people that may not have come purely for the art
Jewle Rae: There are wonderful classes on conducting events every other Sunday morning in SL
FreeWee Ling: Yes
Skylarian Isachenko: careful choice of music helps
Sasun Steinbeck: oh where is that Jewle?
Araminta Kroitschov: It's great for my space at the Chelsea, it doubles the visitors
Callipygian Christensen: I disagee mostly Sasun, but will be happy to debate that after or another time :)
Sasun Steinbeck: tell us what your experience is Calli, that would be great
Cat Boccaccio: and you can hire people to organize and host the events, also
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Cat VERY good tip, if you're not good at event planning, there are people that are - hire an expert!
Skylarian Isachenko: An art auction is a lovely means of doing things, but the most effective I have seen personally was when it was done for a charity, you get a lot of other people promoting the event for you.
Callipygian Christensen: IME very few of the fans that follow a musical artist take time to look at the art..at your next event see how many can name an image or two from the exhibit once they leave..
Sasun Steinbeck: I have seen events where the music is a bit *too* much the focus... for example having the stage be *away* from the art - well that could make a nice music concert but not help market your art at all :(
Callipygian Christensen: but their presence slows down rez and the chance to etiehr get into the sim or see the art when they are there for those who are there for the art
Jewle Rae: The classes are run by NCI. I have a folder of notes and SURL
Jewle Rae: How to share with everyone is the question I have.
Sasun Steinbeck: Oh yes that is a good point, many of your guests will be members of the performer's group
Callipygian Christensen: so if you want a party, go for it- if you want people focussed on looking at the art, stream your own music..that lets you even talk to those attending too
Skylarian Isachenko: DJ who are also artists are very good for such events
Callipygian Christensen shuts up now lol
Em Larsson: I totally agree CAlli
Skylarian Isachenko: they understand the challenges
FreeWee Ling: One key is to plan events carefully so you develop a reputation for quality. That goes for the art, too, of course. But you want repeat traffic. Devotees
Sasun Steinbeck: yes you can definitely tone down the music, I would say especially if you have a very compelling theme for your exhibition... something that you don't want to detract from... having a "big show" might not be the right thing to do
Dyce Underwood: Yes and a lot of the times People that come out for a music event and see the art, Have a better chance of returning then if there were no art...
Dyce Underwood: No one knows who loves art
Cat Boccaccio: when I had two well-known performers at my Beach Gallery opening, I had a huge turnout, people looked at and bought art, and I got many new group member... Just my experience
Sasun Steinbeck: yes FreeWee, that's true, I know from my own experience that I have certain people that I love to go since I know it will be fun
Armany Thursday: if anybody has a resource list....DJs, performers....streams that are good for openings..would really appreciate if they were willing to share ?
Skylarian Isachenko: Its a delicate balance too as you really cannot run a music event all day, yet you would like to have folk visiting through out the day
Sasun Steinbeck: balance is right, and I think you need to talk to others to get some perspective, then just learn by doing, figure out what works for you for the type of art, the venue, and your style
FreeWee Ling: That's another question. How do you plan the time for an event in a global environment?
Skylarian Isachenko: I can give you a name, Gwen Carillon marvelous DJ that is also an exquisit artist
Sasun Steinbeck: oh very good question. I can tell you that any time you pick is the wrong time.
Armany Thursday: awesome...ty so much Sky ?
Callipygian Christensen: arranging a jint exhibit is a good way to expose nw people to your art - both artists benefit from having the othrs' regulars attend and view
Callipygian Christensen: 'joint'
Sasun Steinbeck: I would say that one possible time when most people are only are approximately 5pm-ish SL time
Sasun Steinbeck: but then that's real late for Europe
Sasun Steinbeck: 10am is not so great for USA, but that's roughly 6pm-ish for Europe
Sasun Steinbeck: really the only solution is to run TWO events
Sasun Steinbeck: one for USA, one for Europe
Skylarian Isachenko: Fishing events can be quite helpful also, believe it or not, you can set art around the fishing sits, and they become captive audience, especially if its sea type art
Sasun Steinbeck: or just stagger your event times
Callipygian Christensen: or try saturday or sunday afternoon
Sasun Steinbeck: yes, just be aware that a lot of art events are usually packed into saturdays and sundays
FreeWee Ling: or Australia.
Callipygian Christensen: 1 PM SL time covers a large poart of the world
Sasun Steinbeck: chances of a collision are higher
FreeWee Ling: UWA is in Perth, which is SLT*15 I thi8nk.
Bobbi Laval: really it's all a double edge sword, you can't be all for everyone, if you do prime time events, then there is also so much more competition from all the other events
FreeWee Ling: +
Bobbi Laval: so sometimes off hour events have a great draw, just from less competition
Skylarian Isachenko: Consider doing a day long event that is mostly audience participation so they come, they are entertained by the exhibit, have some buffet set out and a nice stream running
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Sasun are there other methods to improve the traffic to the Gallery ?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I was going to talk about advertising
Sasun Steinbeck: there are some key art groups to join and advertise on
Skylarian Isachenko: Hunts can improve traffic but may not make sales
Jewle Rae: According to the experts in the classes I took and the top event promoters and producers I interiewed over this past year most successful attended events start on half hour.
Sasun Steinbeck: the ideal way is to advertise your event well before hand, at least a few days in advance if not more
Lyrilen Moonshadow: but, if you only display, and not sell - do you qualify for hunts, really?
Sasun Steinbeck: then, send out another notice right before the event starts
Sasun Steinbeck: you'll get a lot of drop-ins that way
Skylarian Isachenko: uummmm depends on the hunt rules I suppose
Skylarian Isachenko: each one is different
Skylarian Isachenko: One other quite good point, Multi language notes
Skylarian Isachenko: advertise in many languages
Sasun Steinbeck: so I would recommend joining another group that I help manage, the Art & Artist Network
Sasun Steinbeck: it is invite only to reduce spam
Sasun Steinbeck: and a great place to advertise events
Sasun Steinbeck: also, check out Open This End
Mathilde Vhargon: I have been running hunts every month for several months and got no sales from them, even though they are one of the best hunt organizer's hunts, we give a nice gift, and we get a steady stream of hunters every day.
Dyce Underwood: Sasun may armany and I have an Invite please
Sasun Steinbeck: and another group I joined recently, .:SL Art:.
Em Larsson: I think hunts ecourage people who like freebies. At least that is my experience.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes for the A&AN group I'd be glad to invite you, please IM me and I'll get to you after the talk is done
Dyce Underwood: Thank you
Sasun Steinbeck: so those are some key groups to spam event info
Em Larsson: SL ArT?
Sasun Steinbeck: i would also recommend you take one of my free event kiosk kits
FreeWee Ling: I go on hunts and I always look around the shops. Often buy stuff.
Em Larsson: Is that the name? Or do I need the punctuation?
Sasun Steinbeck: hm maybe you do
Sasun Steinbeck: the punctuation is part of the name
Em Larsson: Thanks
Sasun Steinbeck: the kiosk it is stage right, furthest on the left there
Sasun Steinbeck: it says "Sassy's advertising kiosk sample"
Ginette Pinazzo: Id also mention to think abut groups that may not be art groups per se, but may relate to whatever theme yoru show is about
Adair Chauveau: What about themes and niche art?
Sasun Steinbeck: so use that kit to create a kiosk that gives out yoru event info and LMs, etc.
Sasun Steinbeck: and send that kiosk out when you make an event announcement
Sasun Steinbeck: also give it to your friends to have them help advertise
Sasun Steinbeck: and set it up everywhere you can
Sasun Steinbeck: that will help get word out
Bobbi Laval wishes she had friends
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): my bf would wear it on his head
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL Bobbi
Lyrilen Moonshadow waves at her friend Bobbi
Callipygian Christensen: Bobbi..phhht
Sasun Steinbeck: heheh perfect
Bobbi Laval giggles
Sasun Steinbeck: another general tip - use the Gallery Owner group, the group's purpose is for group chat about things relevant to gallery owners (not event announcements!)
Sasun Steinbeck: so that's a great place to ask for opinions on really anything we've been talking about today
Adair Chauveau: Are people in SL who go to galleries as educated about art as people who go to galleries in RL? Would educational events help that?
Skylarian Isachenko: its the real world, just disquised
Araminta Kroitschov: Educational events always help in RL and SL :)
madison Arnahan grins
Skylarian Isachenko: unless its an erotic gallery.....
Lyrilen Moonshadow: oh - I like that Sky
Armany Thursday: educational events are a huge community service imo
Adair Chauveau: Thanks
madison Arnahan: Like this maybe ?
Sasun Steinbeck: Adair that's a great question, I don't really know, and don't think any studies have been done, but I would have to hazard a guess that there are a lot of "hobbyist" artists and art lovers in SL
Adair Chauveau smiles and nods. This is great!
Skylarian Isachenko: People forget, this is still the same people, we do not transform just because we come here
Sasun Steinbeck: I can tell you that for me, I was never interested in art until my rez day a long time ago
Lyrilen Moonshadow: is there some separation... some labelling or anything between galleries who show RL art in SL and those who show SL art in SL?
Skylarian Isachenko: A nit wit will still be a nitwit
Sasun Steinbeck: hm no Lyrilen, I don't have any kind of categorization like that, but that would be very cool
Skylarian Isachenko: Hmmm I show RL in SL, SL in RL, SL in SL, and mixed in both.
Adair Chauveau: I know some University Art classes in SL but they seem to not know much about groups like this.
Em Larsson: I became an artist in SL.. then a RL artist after that.
FreeWee Ling: Anybody selling SL art in rl?
Skylarian Isachenko: oh my yes
Armany Thursday: wow Em....awesome!!
Sasun Steinbeck: Yeah you know one consistent problem has been that group A doesn't know that there's a group B doing the same darn thing just abouit
Em Larsson: I do
Skylarian Isachenko: my calendars are one example
Mathilde Vhargon: I also became an artist in SL
Em Larsson: Just recently at a local show I had in RL I sold SL art.
Sasun Steinbeck: I think SL is a great place to spread your wings and become an artist
Skylarian Isachenko: in once sense SL is like using Poser and Bryce
FreeWee Ling: Cool. Calendar is a nice idea.
Skylarian Isachenko: the avatars are a lot harder to mange though
Skylarian Isachenko: they have minds of their own
Sasun Steinbeck: I think we have a bajillion ametuer photographers in SL :) which is a good thing
Armany Thursday: lololol Sky
Sasun Steinbeck: separating the junk frojm the good stuff can be challenging
Sasun Steinbeck: that's why I created the gallery ratings
Skylarian Isachenko: that is the case in anything,
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah true :)
Jayjay Zifanwe: there will be a unit called '21st Century Art' at UWA, and one of the lectures will be about art in SL
Skylarian Isachenko: splatter paint on a canvas and call it art
Krishanna Magic: Just like RL, Sasun ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: sigh
Sasun Steinbeck: excellent Jayjay that sounds very interesting
Lyrilen Moonshadow: my Exhibit Hall is for the 80% of the bajillion that don't show anywhere else - just to share the thrill of sharing their photos
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I would love to see is more RL press about SL art... it happens from time to time, and efforts like Jayjay's at the UWA are doing wonders on that front
Mathilde Vhargon: Do you have any suggestions on how best to get visitors to rate the gallery and maybe leave a review on the kiosk. I get quite a few comments, but none seem to get put on the kiosk thing, and people aren't hitting the stars eigher
Mathilde Vhargon: either
Sasun Steinbeck: but it's been a long tough climb to legitimze virtual art as a real art form with RL critics
Sasun Steinbeck: I have a special rating kiosk I can give you
Sasun Steinbeck: the intent is to put it near the "exit" of your gallery so people see it on the way out
Skylarian Isachenko: yes, well you can blme some of that on the people using the programs to create garbage....
Sasun Steinbeck: and remember to rate the gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: also in your visitor counter, encourage them to click the stars to rate your gallery!
Lyrilen Moonshadow: people don't "leave" galleries in SL though... they port out
Sasun Steinbeck: so Im me and I'd be glad to send you one of those rating kiosks
Mathilde Vhargon: That will help
Em Larsson: I did a simultaneous RL SL event.
Mathilde Vhargon: Mine is at the entrance
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah that is a good point, Lyrilen
Em Larsson: Got an article in the local newspaper about it.
FreeWee Ling: It's all about building a reputation. Once people know what you do and like it, they'll start coming to you for interviews in the mags and blogs. .
Sasun Steinbeck: but having a few rating kiosks around will only help
Armany Thursday: gosh Em...love your story ?
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Sasun, before we end, could you comment on ways we could have the Artist be better known ?
Skylarian Isachenko: if you do not mind me advertising a little I will give you the link to the calendar?
Sasun Steinbeck: stick one in the back so people see it while they are exploring, that sort of thing
Jayjay Zifanwe: there will be more soon
Jayjay Zifanwe: in the Artists Chronicle
Jayjay Zifanwe: which is an RL publication
Skylarian Isachenko: I did do a presentation at an art club and computer club on sl art
Skylarian Isachenko: was rather fun actually
Skylarian Isachenko: http://skiesofchaos.deviantart.com/#/d35zw53
Jayjay Zifanwe: we have the editor Lyn DiCiero as a judge for the art challenge, and she's done one article in the december magazine, and a larger one now that she has immersed heself a liuttle
Skylarian Isachenko: mixed SL< RL
Adair Chauveau: Some arts like pottery and fiber arts some consider just crafts and not art at all. And SL is like technology same fight to be legitimized as real art.
Lyrilen Moonshadow: yes, my point is that you have to think carefully about where to place things like kiosks... because the traffic pattern is different than rl
Skylarian Isachenko: too bad you can not set exit points like you can landing points
Skylarian Isachenko: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: GeeJAnn I think lots of the things we have been talking about will help artists become better known. One thing I didn't touch on was the value of networking - if you're not the social type, I understand it's a chore to chat people up, but really it's SO important to talk to other artists, learn about them - they will remember you. And learn from them.
Sasun Steinbeck: Go to events. Socialize. Meet some gallery owners, find out if they are looking for an artist. Join the Art & Artist Network and look for notices for free or cheap gallery space. Get into more shows. Learn how to market yourself. It's hard, I know!
Skylarian Isachenko: Use FAcebook, Blogs and other media tools also
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Thank you, sound advice
Sasun Steinbeck: You have to stick with it and keep meeting new people. It will result in more invites to big shows, larger galleries, that sort of thing. Yes good point on the social media, leverage facebook, and you REALLY SHOULD have a blog for your gallery
Jayjay Zifanwe: yes
Ginette Pinazzo: yes other online presences are very important..offworld
Jayjay Zifanwe: until it was forced on me
Jayjay Zifanwe: io resisted having a blog
Sasun Steinbeck: if you put your blog's address into your Galleries of SL Kiosk config, I will automatically pick it up for my consolidated gallery feed at http://sasun.info
Jayjay Zifanwe: but its an integral part of the identity now
Sasun Steinbeck: so I'm helping on the blog front! take advantage of it
Bobbi Laval: I find one problem, is there are no common points of contacts for doing press releases in SL, there are so many bloggers and such, but unless you know them personally, if is difficult to send press release to bloggers you don't know are out there
Skylarian Isachenko: there are networked bloggs
Jayjay Zifanwe: Bobbi, what you need to do with bloggers you want
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes Bobbi that's a good point, it kinda come down to knowing which art blogs are the most popular that month. And they do come and go, so it's not easy
Jayjay Zifanwe: is to write to them personally
Jayjay Zifanwe: and talk to them about why what you're doing is interesting/important
Sasun Steinbeck: +1 for Jayjay, he's right
Jayjay Zifanwe: just sending press releases etc won't work too well
Sasun Steinbeck: they appreciate being notified of possible interesting things to write about
Jayjay Zifanwe: needs to be personal follow up
FreeWee Ling: Definitely. The personal encounter is key.
Sasun Steinbeck: just inc ase you do want to go the press release way, check out ow-To do a Press Release: http://www.publicityinsider.com/release.asp
Bobbi Laval: but thats what I mean Jayjay, there are hundreds of ppl out there blogging, and not so easy to find them
Jayjay Zifanwe: if there are hundreds
Jayjay Zifanwe: pick 5
Mathilde Vhargon: I am wondering what percentage of your time you 'successful' gallery owners and artists are spending on promoting and marketing, as opposed to creating and exhibiting the art. It would help to have an idea of proportions that work.
Jayjay Zifanwe: and work with them
Skylarian Isachenko: Chatting up Prim Perfect is a nice way to maybe get an article too
madison Arnahan: Here is one
Ginette Pinazzo: running your owj blog also helps you get into that circle, so to speak
madison Arnahan: http://palaisorleans.blogspot.com/
Adair Chauveau: I'd like to see a RL Gallery and SL Gallery mashup event. with screens of SL at the RL one and screens of the RL one in SL.
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): http://2ndlife5.blogspot.com
Jayjay Zifanwe: chat lag... here is what i said 'If there are hundreds, pick 5 of your favourites and work with them'
madison Arnahan mastering the Art of Shameless Self Promotion
Em Larsson: I wish you had coem to my event Adair
Sasun Steinbeck: Good question Mathilde, I would guess most gallery owners and artists spend very little time promoting, so the people that do can really get ahead
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): shamelessly
Em Larsson: It's not easy though.
Em Larsson: Does anyone use an agent?
madison Arnahan pretend to blush
Sasun Steinbeck: hahah shamelessly is right. Marketing and art do not necessarily go hand in hand. Either learn how or... work with someone that knows how
Em Larsson: Someone who can brag for you?
Skylarian Isachenko: I have in the past but in order to do so, I had to verify them in RL
Skylarian Isachenko: Never, ever trust anyone that will not verify with you in RL
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm getting short on time and I wanted to share this link, a random assortment of resources and tips that may be useful to you
Sasun Steinbeck: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0v5Imt1nZ9PYjdhMjcwOWEtODFkOC00NGRjLWE3ZDQtMzQzMTdmYzNkODgy&hl=en
Callipygian Christensen: It goes back to 'what are your goals'..between promoting andd creating it can eaisly beccome a full time job..so youhave to decide for yourself how important the two sides are and allot your time accordingly
Lyrilen Moonshadow: the networking starts with blog and flickr - you "follow" each other or become members of each other's groups
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes, get your art up on flickr, Deviant Art, Moolto, whatever works for you
Devilana Nirvana: I'm sorry I had to step away for a moment so I hope this is not a repeat question, as I try to scroll through what I missed....but is there a list of all the SL magazines other than just randomly finding them?
Sasun Steinbeck: It can be time-consuming to stay up to speed on all the social networking sites, but pick a few and stick with it
Adair Chauveau: Do those SL mags really help promote art?
Mathilde Vhargon: Do some of you have info or links regarding how to protect art that is pictured in a blog or on Marketplace, etc. or elsewhere for sale... to try to keep the image from being copied?
Sasun Steinbeck: hm Devilana, I would love to have such a list. One thing - you might search for this place called The Rack
Sasun Steinbeck: it has tons and tons of magazine kiosks
Sasun Steinbeck: it's the next best thing to a list
Lyrilen Moonshadow: I have the same question as Adair
Skylarian Isachenko: Low rez, its the most effective, and hidden watermarks
Devilana Nirvana: oh thank you, I will check it out.
Skylarian Isachenko: nothing can stop it being copies by screen shot
Sasun Steinbeck: advertising in magazines is something we haven't touched on, and I don't have much experience in myself, but that is a very interesting option
Devilana Nirvana: well designed watermarks help a great deal
Jewle Rae: I stepped away also ~ I highly recommend anyone interested in learning SL events attend those NIC event classes. Resources provided in them are updated for each session and yes, on the magazines, etc.
Sasun Steinbeck: oh thank you Jewle, does anyone have a website or other reference to the NIC classes?
Jewle Rae: You can IM me for the SURL. I'm such a ditz at this.
Adair Chauveau: Do watermarks and like COPY over the piece help with theft?
Mathilde Vhargon: Is there a place I can get info on how to make a good watermark that is effective?
Lyrilen Moonshadow: you can google it
Callipygian Christensen: I thinkit's NCI, new citizens incorporated, if anyone is earching for it
Lyrilen Moonshadow: there are lots of tutorials on watermarks
Skylarian Isachenko: you have to remember in here, is mostly low rez anyway
Callipygian Christensen: or searching..earching might be painful
Devilana Nirvana: there are several articles online that I have researched and found myself regarding watermarks
Sasun Steinbeck: I purposefully avoided the whole topic of IP protection, copyright, etc. etc. since we could easily spend a few hours on that alone :) But that's also a great topic area to research, how to protect your art
Skylarian Isachenko: so there are very few things you can really do if you put it on the net
Devilana Nirvana: I have a small program called Watermark that can watermark videos and pictures
Sasun Steinbeck: unfortuantely I'm out of time and wanted to thank anyone that needs to go
Jewle Rae: My friend who conducts the sessions is Any Gnoid
Skylarian Isachenko: maintaining proper legal records can help
GeeJAnn Blackadder: I think this is great dialog, and as Sasun said, would be well to discuss this in the group chat
Sasun Steinbeck: I will stay here for a bit but thanks for attending!
Jewle Rae: I've got to get to the machinima meet.
Clovis Luik: very good seminar
Araminta Kroitschov: thanks!
Adair Chauveau: Thank you for this class Sasun.
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Very good Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: I will post the chat log in the ARt Gallery Owners group and on my blog
Mathilde Vhargon: Thank you
Devilana Nirvana: thank you Sasun..this was very helpful
Sasun Steinbeck: so it will be on record
Dyce Underwood: Thank you Sasun very much for the amazing info.
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you everyone I hope you learned a few things! And thanks for those of you that shared your experience
Lyrilen Moonshadow: Thank you Sasun!
FreeWee Ling: Thank you Sasun :)
Skylarian Isachenko: Your talks are always useful
Adair Chauveau: I was wondering about themes and niche art? Like styles trends ethnic? If there is a market for that in SL?
Jayjay Zifanwe: one day we want to hear sasuns voice too in the talks :)
Sasun Steinbeck: my next talk will be for the Art Gallery Owner's group and I'm trying to line up a feedback session with the other memebers of the LEA (Linden Endowment for the Arts) committee
Skylarian Isachenko: must be, there is market for ethnic avs and clothing
Clovis Luik: Niche art works very well for the adult art market
Sasun Steinbeck: the LEA was a bit dead for a while but is back with a new mission and we'd love to get your feedback!
Adair Chauveau: Good point Skylarian. Thanks
Sasun Steinbeck: Lots of cool plans and I hope we can share all that with you at an upcoming meeting
Callipygian Christensen: oh.is the mission posted somwehere?
Ginette Pinazzo: yay LEA!
Sasun Steinbeck: there are old links to the LEA announcement I can dig up, hang on. Our mission is still pretty much the same, just scaled back in a few key areas
Callipygian Christensen: oh, I have the old one somewhere..sorry, I misunderstood there being a new one
Em Larsson: Sasun.. thank you so much for doing this.
Sasun Steinbeck: no, we have not actually made a public announcement since the LEA was revived
Sasun Steinbeck: I expect that to show up on some official LL blog somewhere, so stay tuned
Callipygian Christensen: ah ok, thanks :)
Sasun Steinbeck: you're very welcome, thanks for coming and we can just keep on going for a little bit more unless there's another event we have to leave for, madison?
Bobbi Laval: I was kinda wondering what had happened with that
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah I'm actually very excited about it coming back to life, we are making progress and I know it sucks to be completely in the dark, but progress has been a bit slow
Sasun Steinbeck: it's just crazy difficult to coordinate a dozen people with RL jobs and schedules
Em Larsson: Thanks for all you do on behalf of art
Sasun Steinbeck: but we're doing it
Sasun Steinbeck: well thank you Em ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: I've been so excited to see the art community in SL grow in the last 5 years
Sasun Steinbeck: and mature
Em Larsson: I need to run.. but thanks again Sasun.
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks for coming!
Sasun Steinbeck: I had a great time
Bobbi Laval: take care Em
FreeWee Ling: Me too. Good night all. Thanks Sasun :)
Ginette Pinazzo: thanks Sasun!
madison Arnahan: big hand for Sasun Steinbeck
Mathilde Vhargon: Goodnight. Thanks for the great session!
Kalie Fang: me too, htnak you so much Sasun
madison Arnahan: thanks so much Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: my great pleasure!
Elbereth Exonar: thank you
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you madison for coordinating this!
Luvi Unplugged-Lichlore (luvi.unplugged): Thank you, Susan
Callipygian Christensen: thanks Sasun, Madison
Sasun Steinbeck: madison when is the next talk?
madison Arnahan: Most welcome .. it is an honor
madison Arnahan: Elizabeth Weinberg will speak tomorrow. She is nicknamed the "Promotion Princess" good reason. She will speak on networking, some basics "effective cattle calls " ..and Event Planning.
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm so there
madison Arnahan: While she was curator here .we were selected as an SL Destination Guide pick ..
Sasun Steinbeck: excellent
madison Arnahan: Everyone would want someone like Elizabeth Weinberg on their team . thanks again to all .. please come again
Sasun Steinbeck: we didn't talk about that, I really don't know what the magic formula is for getting into the LL destination guide, which is another great way to promote your gallery
madison Arnahan: thanks once more Sasun
Luvi Unplugged-Lichlore (luvi.unplugged): Thanks, Madison
Clovis Luik: TY
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you madison!
Big thanks to madison Arnahan who came up with the idea of the talk series and organized the whole thing. I love it!
madison Arnahan: hi all .. what a great turnout ... and I think it underscores the relevance of the topic .. and what our speaker tonight can lend to that topic
madison Arnahan: Sasun has been in the eye of the storm .. on the forefront of the battle .. what other metaphors ?
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): dead center of the cross hairs
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Leading The Parade
Sasun Steinbeck: more like Lead Clown of the Crazy Circus!
Sasun Steinbeck: and I wouldn't want it either way, you creative peeps are the best :)
madison Arnahan: Her drive to elevate art and art galleries in reknown .. Palais SL Magazine is honored to host this event and to have Sasun lead it off .. who else could fill the bill . so please welcome Sasun Steinbeck
Sasun Steinbeck: aw thank you!
Em Larsson: clap clap clap
Skylarian Isachenko: Waves a sparkler
Devilana Nirvana claps and whistles
Lyrilen Moonshadow applause
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks again to madison for putting this whole series together
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Applause!!
Sasun Steinbeck: we've got some other kick-ass speakers for later talks in the series
Sasun Steinbeck: well welcome everyone, I know lots of you are very experienced gallery owners
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm not going to stand her and drone on for 60 minutes, I'd like to get LOTS of comments from all of you
Sasun Steinbeck: since you have a lot of good stuff to share and best practices, I know
Sasun Steinbeck: so chime in with your thoughts or tidbits please!!
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd like to put in a plug for my group as we get things rolling here. I want people to know that help with this topic is available from quite a few sources - your fellow gallery owners are always willing to help, and asking questions of this sort are exactly what the Art Gallery Owner's group is for, so please join and ask about how to build and manage your gallery :)
Sasun Steinbeck: over to my right of the stage are 4 little kiosks, the one on the right will help you join the group if you are interested
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): being an "experienced SL Gallery Owner" is kinda like a homeless person being a proud box owner
Sasun Steinbeck: hehehe :D
Armany Thursday: smiles
Callipygian Christensen waits for someone to say ohh..with only 42 groups I am afraid I don't have room
Em Larsson: he he he
Armany Thursday: lololololol
Sasun Steinbeck: if you are a gallery owner and NOT on my gallery list at http://sasun.info/artgalleriesofSL.aspx, click the 2nd kiosk to the left of that one, t hat will give you a kiosk requester
Sasun Steinbeck: so that's my first tip on being a successful gallery owner
Sasun Steinbeck: get on the list! Get a kiosk, set it up, and you will immediately be added to the list
Skylarian Isachenko: Yep, very helpful
Sasun Steinbeck: once you're on the list, work those gallery ratings to your advantage
Sasun Steinbeck: encourage people that say nice things to you to rate your gallery! that pushes you up the list
Sasun Steinbeck: the galleries on the list are sorted by rating, so it's good to move up the list
Sasun Steinbeck: if someone says your art sucks, don't mention the rating stars! lol
Skylarian Isachenko: Its a great way to spend an after noon also, just clicking through the galleries
Sasun Steinbeck: while I'm talking about the kiosks, I have two more, with some freebies in them, one is my free art resizer, click it to get one, and to the left of that is a little kit you can use to make kiosks to advertise events
Sasun Steinbeck: the latter is open source and free, so look at the scripts to learn a few tricks and pass it along to others
Sasun Steinbeck: so... onto the main topic
Sasun Steinbeck: how to be a successful gallery owner
Sasun Steinbeck: obviously the definition of success here is important
Sasun Steinbeck: For many artists, just the fact that people want to view their work is more than enough. What is important to you? Your personal statement? Cash flow? Maybe both? That's OK, but you should think about what it is so you can set expectations for yourself. If you take the time to nurture and maintain your gallery, it will bring you the satisfaction you desire - you will only get out of it what you put into it.
Skylarian Isachenko: Meeting your personal goals as a gallery or artist is one
Sasun Steinbeck: yes exactly
Sasun Steinbeck: and those are for you to set
Sasun Steinbeck: if you are happy making no sales, and you are tickled pink by talking to people that love your art, you'll be happier than someone trying to earn a lot of money selling art
Sasun Steinbeck: because trust me, you will NOT make a lot of money! If you want money, you're in the wrong business!
Sasun Steinbeck: But if you create art for the love of it, and you pour yourself into it, maybe the money will come. But you need to be in a position where you just don't care if it does or not, since it won't at first, I can guarantee that! Eventually you can work on the marketing aspects and get help from others to do that, and next thing you know you'll be making some money.
Skylarian Isachenko: It can however be very useful as a tool to get people out there looking at your RL art and you can and do make sales there.
Sasun Steinbeck: absolutely true
Sasun Steinbeck: It's a great way to cross-pollinate between your Deviant Art page, or commercial art sales website. Just the other day I was talking to someone that made a RL sale from an SL customer, so it definitely happens. Make sure your customers are aware of the fact that they can buy your art for RL too, and where your website is. Take advantage of the free visitor counter in your Galleries of SL kiosk to give out notecards with your website on it or an email address to contact if they are interested in buying something in RL.
Skylarian Isachenko: I am making quite a few sales of rl calendars for the St Tiggywinkle animal hospital via the Isle of Wyrms
Skylarian Isachenko: created from the avatars of the dragons, doing pretty well actually
Sasun Steinbeck: The Gallery listing also lets you configure a website link with your listing, so people can click it and go to your website, hopefully make a sale or two from the traffic
Sasun Steinbeck: So as a new gallery owner, what are some of the key things you can do to "get plugged in" and start down the path to a happy and successful career as an art gallery owner?
Sasun Steinbeck: I've got a few ideas and would love to hear yours :)
Devilana Nirvana: is that listing solely for art galleries or also for photo studios that have a gallery to the front of their shop?
Skylarian Isachenko: That does bring up a point you might want to make clear to people, because sl has the whole anonomus thing, explain to them if, its true of course that their information cannot be be connected back to their sl selves
Sasun Steinbeck: I would consider a photo studio with a gallery to be an art gallery, sure
Sasun Steinbeck: yes that is a good point
Sasun Steinbeck: if you want to make RL sales, then don't count on staying anonymous, is my advice
Skylarian Isachenko: I have complete transparnece, rl and sl, but customers like to stay hidden
Skylarian Isachenko: so I use a service that sells my work for me
Jewle Rae: Frankly, almost every aspect of SL is "Art"
Skylarian Isachenko: I never see who buys stuff
Sasun Steinbeck: yes absolutely, so that's a real good thing to think about. you know all those annoying "privacy notices" you get in the mail from banks and whatnot
Armany Thursday: so true, Jewle
Lyrilen Moonshadow: I made that point just the other day Jewle
Sasun Steinbeck: it would be great to make a simple one so that people know exactly where the boundaries are when it comes to them puchasing RL art
Em Larsson: What service do you use, Skylarian?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes make it clear that, if you have things set up to where you never see thier RL info if you make a sale, that potential purchasers know that
Sasun Steinbeck: so they will feel safe to buy something
Skylarian Isachenko: Deviant Art Prints, mostly, some Zazzle
Em Larsson: Thanks.
Adair Chauveau: Selling art online by PayPal helps to keep both seller and buyer private.
Sasun Steinbeck: very good point, yes. They will see your paypal email though, I suppose
Sasun Steinbeck: and vice-versa
Adair Chauveau: yes
Skylarian Isachenko: yes, and you get their shipping address too
Sasun Steinbeck: privacy is a very good thing to understand and make clear, one way or another
Sasun Steinbeck: yes
Sasun Steinbeck: even still, there are many people that want to buy from you in RL and will do so
Sasun Steinbeck: so if that's a goal of yours, put some thought into marketing that to potential customers in SL
Skylarian Isachenko: I do get those that buy from me direct because they want my signature, and then its pretty obvious its open informaiton
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Sasun , Have you some advice on how we can have our Gallery better known ?
Sasun Steinbeck: that's a great question
Sasun Steinbeck: there are quite a few good ways
Sasun Steinbeck: I would say probably the traditional, tried-and-true method is via hosting events
Sasun Steinbeck: Events - are the key thing that help promote the gallery and bring more buyers in. If you have a huge friends list, one tactic is to just spin it like a party for friends and invite everyone in your friends list. If you know how to DJ music, or have a DJ friend, that's perfect.
Sasun Steinbeck: Another is to throw an event every time you have a change, such as a new guest artist on display or if you own a multi-gallery area, when a new artist rents a spot as a way of introduction. I would highly recommend you talk to some of the larger gallery owners about throwing events, I'm sure they will have a lot of great tips for you.
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): wine & cheese
Sasun Steinbeck: events are time-consuming, but they can be a lot of fun
Sasun Steinbeck: and doing an event from time to time will keep people coming in
Araminta Kroitschov: and you meet fantastic people
Skylarian Isachenko: Fit the event to your resources too, its not good to have people not able to get there because your venue cannot support enough agents
Sasun Steinbeck: yes absolutely, it is a great way to meet other artists and gallery owners and pump them for info :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes thank you Skylarian, good point
FreeWee Ling: I've found that most peope who come to an event are there for the party rather than the art. Good parties though.
Callipygian Christensen: Free - I avoid that by not making a music act the focus
Sasun Steinbeck: There are a lot of details to attend to. Now that I think about it, I don't really know where a checklist of things to do for an event would be
Sasun Steinbeck: I think that would be really great to have
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): indeed
Skylarian Isachenko: Each type of event has its own issues
Sasun Steinbeck: yes
Skylarian Isachenko: as IOW events planner, trust me, I know.. grins
Em Larsson: I agree with Calli though - music call actually distract people from the art.
Sasun Steinbeck: That's an interesting point, the music. I think it's been really effective in most cases to meld a music event of some sort with a visual art event
Sasun Steinbeck: for one that brings in people that may not have come purely for the art
Jewle Rae: There are wonderful classes on conducting events every other Sunday morning in SL
FreeWee Ling: Yes
Skylarian Isachenko: careful choice of music helps
Sasun Steinbeck: oh where is that Jewle?
Araminta Kroitschov: It's great for my space at the Chelsea, it doubles the visitors
Callipygian Christensen: I disagee mostly Sasun, but will be happy to debate that after or another time :)
Sasun Steinbeck: tell us what your experience is Calli, that would be great
Cat Boccaccio: and you can hire people to organize and host the events, also
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Cat VERY good tip, if you're not good at event planning, there are people that are - hire an expert!
Skylarian Isachenko: An art auction is a lovely means of doing things, but the most effective I have seen personally was when it was done for a charity, you get a lot of other people promoting the event for you.
Callipygian Christensen: IME very few of the fans that follow a musical artist take time to look at the art..at your next event see how many can name an image or two from the exhibit once they leave..
Sasun Steinbeck: I have seen events where the music is a bit *too* much the focus... for example having the stage be *away* from the art - well that could make a nice music concert but not help market your art at all :(
Callipygian Christensen: but their presence slows down rez and the chance to etiehr get into the sim or see the art when they are there for those who are there for the art
Jewle Rae: The classes are run by NCI. I have a folder of notes and SURL
Jewle Rae: How to share with everyone is the question I have.
Sasun Steinbeck: Oh yes that is a good point, many of your guests will be members of the performer's group
Callipygian Christensen: so if you want a party, go for it- if you want people focussed on looking at the art, stream your own music..that lets you even talk to those attending too
Skylarian Isachenko: DJ who are also artists are very good for such events
Callipygian Christensen shuts up now lol
Em Larsson: I totally agree CAlli
Skylarian Isachenko: they understand the challenges
FreeWee Ling: One key is to plan events carefully so you develop a reputation for quality. That goes for the art, too, of course. But you want repeat traffic. Devotees
Sasun Steinbeck: yes you can definitely tone down the music, I would say especially if you have a very compelling theme for your exhibition... something that you don't want to detract from... having a "big show" might not be the right thing to do
Dyce Underwood: Yes and a lot of the times People that come out for a music event and see the art, Have a better chance of returning then if there were no art...
Dyce Underwood: No one knows who loves art
Cat Boccaccio: when I had two well-known performers at my Beach Gallery opening, I had a huge turnout, people looked at and bought art, and I got many new group member... Just my experience
Sasun Steinbeck: yes FreeWee, that's true, I know from my own experience that I have certain people that I love to go since I know it will be fun
Armany Thursday: if anybody has a resource list....DJs, performers....streams that are good for openings..would really appreciate if they were willing to share ?
Skylarian Isachenko: Its a delicate balance too as you really cannot run a music event all day, yet you would like to have folk visiting through out the day
Sasun Steinbeck: balance is right, and I think you need to talk to others to get some perspective, then just learn by doing, figure out what works for you for the type of art, the venue, and your style
FreeWee Ling: That's another question. How do you plan the time for an event in a global environment?
Skylarian Isachenko: I can give you a name, Gwen Carillon marvelous DJ that is also an exquisit artist
Sasun Steinbeck: oh very good question. I can tell you that any time you pick is the wrong time.
Armany Thursday: awesome...ty so much Sky ?
Callipygian Christensen: arranging a jint exhibit is a good way to expose nw people to your art - both artists benefit from having the othrs' regulars attend and view
Callipygian Christensen: 'joint'
Sasun Steinbeck: I would say that one possible time when most people are only are approximately 5pm-ish SL time
Sasun Steinbeck: but then that's real late for Europe
Sasun Steinbeck: 10am is not so great for USA, but that's roughly 6pm-ish for Europe
Sasun Steinbeck: really the only solution is to run TWO events
Sasun Steinbeck: one for USA, one for Europe
Skylarian Isachenko: Fishing events can be quite helpful also, believe it or not, you can set art around the fishing sits, and they become captive audience, especially if its sea type art
Sasun Steinbeck: or just stagger your event times
Callipygian Christensen: or try saturday or sunday afternoon
Sasun Steinbeck: yes, just be aware that a lot of art events are usually packed into saturdays and sundays
FreeWee Ling: or Australia.
Callipygian Christensen: 1 PM SL time covers a large poart of the world
Sasun Steinbeck: chances of a collision are higher
FreeWee Ling: UWA is in Perth, which is SLT*15 I thi8nk.
Bobbi Laval: really it's all a double edge sword, you can't be all for everyone, if you do prime time events, then there is also so much more competition from all the other events
FreeWee Ling: +
Bobbi Laval: so sometimes off hour events have a great draw, just from less competition
Skylarian Isachenko: Consider doing a day long event that is mostly audience participation so they come, they are entertained by the exhibit, have some buffet set out and a nice stream running
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Sasun are there other methods to improve the traffic to the Gallery ?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I was going to talk about advertising
Sasun Steinbeck: there are some key art groups to join and advertise on
Skylarian Isachenko: Hunts can improve traffic but may not make sales
Jewle Rae: According to the experts in the classes I took and the top event promoters and producers I interiewed over this past year most successful attended events start on half hour.
Sasun Steinbeck: the ideal way is to advertise your event well before hand, at least a few days in advance if not more
Lyrilen Moonshadow: but, if you only display, and not sell - do you qualify for hunts, really?
Sasun Steinbeck: then, send out another notice right before the event starts
Sasun Steinbeck: you'll get a lot of drop-ins that way
Skylarian Isachenko: uummmm depends on the hunt rules I suppose
Skylarian Isachenko: each one is different
Skylarian Isachenko: One other quite good point, Multi language notes
Skylarian Isachenko: advertise in many languages
Sasun Steinbeck: so I would recommend joining another group that I help manage, the Art & Artist Network
Sasun Steinbeck: it is invite only to reduce spam
Sasun Steinbeck: and a great place to advertise events
Sasun Steinbeck: also, check out Open This End
Mathilde Vhargon: I have been running hunts every month for several months and got no sales from them, even though they are one of the best hunt organizer's hunts, we give a nice gift, and we get a steady stream of hunters every day.
Dyce Underwood: Sasun may armany and I have an Invite please
Sasun Steinbeck: and another group I joined recently, .:SL Art:.
Em Larsson: I think hunts ecourage people who like freebies. At least that is my experience.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes for the A&AN group I'd be glad to invite you, please IM me and I'll get to you after the talk is done
Dyce Underwood: Thank you
Sasun Steinbeck: so those are some key groups to spam event info
Em Larsson: SL ArT?
Sasun Steinbeck: i would also recommend you take one of my free event kiosk kits
FreeWee Ling: I go on hunts and I always look around the shops. Often buy stuff.
Em Larsson: Is that the name? Or do I need the punctuation?
Sasun Steinbeck: hm maybe you do
Sasun Steinbeck: the punctuation is part of the name
Em Larsson: Thanks
Sasun Steinbeck: the kiosk it is stage right, furthest on the left there
Sasun Steinbeck: it says "Sassy's advertising kiosk sample"
Ginette Pinazzo: Id also mention to think abut groups that may not be art groups per se, but may relate to whatever theme yoru show is about
Adair Chauveau: What about themes and niche art?
Sasun Steinbeck: so use that kit to create a kiosk that gives out yoru event info and LMs, etc.
Sasun Steinbeck: and send that kiosk out when you make an event announcement
Sasun Steinbeck: also give it to your friends to have them help advertise
Sasun Steinbeck: and set it up everywhere you can
Sasun Steinbeck: that will help get word out
Bobbi Laval wishes she had friends
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): my bf would wear it on his head
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL Bobbi
Lyrilen Moonshadow waves at her friend Bobbi
Callipygian Christensen: Bobbi..phhht
Sasun Steinbeck: heheh perfect
Bobbi Laval giggles
Sasun Steinbeck: another general tip - use the Gallery Owner group, the group's purpose is for group chat about things relevant to gallery owners (not event announcements!)
Sasun Steinbeck: so that's a great place to ask for opinions on really anything we've been talking about today
Adair Chauveau: Are people in SL who go to galleries as educated about art as people who go to galleries in RL? Would educational events help that?
Skylarian Isachenko: its the real world, just disquised
Araminta Kroitschov: Educational events always help in RL and SL :)
madison Arnahan grins
Skylarian Isachenko: unless its an erotic gallery.....
Lyrilen Moonshadow: oh - I like that Sky
Armany Thursday: educational events are a huge community service imo
Adair Chauveau: Thanks
madison Arnahan: Like this maybe ?
Sasun Steinbeck: Adair that's a great question, I don't really know, and don't think any studies have been done, but I would have to hazard a guess that there are a lot of "hobbyist" artists and art lovers in SL
Adair Chauveau smiles and nods. This is great!
Skylarian Isachenko: People forget, this is still the same people, we do not transform just because we come here
Sasun Steinbeck: I can tell you that for me, I was never interested in art until my rez day a long time ago
Lyrilen Moonshadow: is there some separation... some labelling or anything between galleries who show RL art in SL and those who show SL art in SL?
Skylarian Isachenko: A nit wit will still be a nitwit
Sasun Steinbeck: hm no Lyrilen, I don't have any kind of categorization like that, but that would be very cool
Skylarian Isachenko: Hmmm I show RL in SL, SL in RL, SL in SL, and mixed in both.
Adair Chauveau: I know some University Art classes in SL but they seem to not know much about groups like this.
Em Larsson: I became an artist in SL.. then a RL artist after that.
FreeWee Ling: Anybody selling SL art in rl?
Skylarian Isachenko: oh my yes
Armany Thursday: wow Em....awesome!!
Sasun Steinbeck: Yeah you know one consistent problem has been that group A doesn't know that there's a group B doing the same darn thing just abouit
Em Larsson: I do
Skylarian Isachenko: my calendars are one example
Mathilde Vhargon: I also became an artist in SL
Em Larsson: Just recently at a local show I had in RL I sold SL art.
Sasun Steinbeck: I think SL is a great place to spread your wings and become an artist
Skylarian Isachenko: in once sense SL is like using Poser and Bryce
FreeWee Ling: Cool. Calendar is a nice idea.
Skylarian Isachenko: the avatars are a lot harder to mange though
Skylarian Isachenko: they have minds of their own
Sasun Steinbeck: I think we have a bajillion ametuer photographers in SL :) which is a good thing
Armany Thursday: lololol Sky
Sasun Steinbeck: separating the junk frojm the good stuff can be challenging
Sasun Steinbeck: that's why I created the gallery ratings
Skylarian Isachenko: that is the case in anything,
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah true :)
Jayjay Zifanwe: there will be a unit called '21st Century Art' at UWA, and one of the lectures will be about art in SL
Skylarian Isachenko: splatter paint on a canvas and call it art
Krishanna Magic: Just like RL, Sasun ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: sigh
Sasun Steinbeck: excellent Jayjay that sounds very interesting
Lyrilen Moonshadow: my Exhibit Hall is for the 80% of the bajillion that don't show anywhere else - just to share the thrill of sharing their photos
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I would love to see is more RL press about SL art... it happens from time to time, and efforts like Jayjay's at the UWA are doing wonders on that front
Mathilde Vhargon: Do you have any suggestions on how best to get visitors to rate the gallery and maybe leave a review on the kiosk. I get quite a few comments, but none seem to get put on the kiosk thing, and people aren't hitting the stars eigher
Mathilde Vhargon: either
Sasun Steinbeck: but it's been a long tough climb to legitimze virtual art as a real art form with RL critics
Sasun Steinbeck: I have a special rating kiosk I can give you
Sasun Steinbeck: the intent is to put it near the "exit" of your gallery so people see it on the way out
Skylarian Isachenko: yes, well you can blme some of that on the people using the programs to create garbage....
Sasun Steinbeck: and remember to rate the gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: also in your visitor counter, encourage them to click the stars to rate your gallery!
Lyrilen Moonshadow: people don't "leave" galleries in SL though... they port out
Sasun Steinbeck: so Im me and I'd be glad to send you one of those rating kiosks
Mathilde Vhargon: That will help
Em Larsson: I did a simultaneous RL SL event.
Mathilde Vhargon: Mine is at the entrance
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah that is a good point, Lyrilen
Em Larsson: Got an article in the local newspaper about it.
FreeWee Ling: It's all about building a reputation. Once people know what you do and like it, they'll start coming to you for interviews in the mags and blogs. .
Sasun Steinbeck: but having a few rating kiosks around will only help
Armany Thursday: gosh Em...love your story ?
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Sasun, before we end, could you comment on ways we could have the Artist be better known ?
Skylarian Isachenko: if you do not mind me advertising a little I will give you the link to the calendar?
Sasun Steinbeck: stick one in the back so people see it while they are exploring, that sort of thing
Jayjay Zifanwe: there will be more soon
Jayjay Zifanwe: in the Artists Chronicle
Jayjay Zifanwe: which is an RL publication
Skylarian Isachenko: I did do a presentation at an art club and computer club on sl art
Skylarian Isachenko: was rather fun actually
Skylarian Isachenko: http://skiesofchaos.deviantart.com/#/d35zw53
Jayjay Zifanwe: we have the editor Lyn DiCiero as a judge for the art challenge, and she's done one article in the december magazine, and a larger one now that she has immersed heself a liuttle
Skylarian Isachenko: mixed SL< RL
Adair Chauveau: Some arts like pottery and fiber arts some consider just crafts and not art at all. And SL is like technology same fight to be legitimized as real art.
Lyrilen Moonshadow: yes, my point is that you have to think carefully about where to place things like kiosks... because the traffic pattern is different than rl
Skylarian Isachenko: too bad you can not set exit points like you can landing points
Skylarian Isachenko: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: GeeJAnn I think lots of the things we have been talking about will help artists become better known. One thing I didn't touch on was the value of networking - if you're not the social type, I understand it's a chore to chat people up, but really it's SO important to talk to other artists, learn about them - they will remember you. And learn from them.
Sasun Steinbeck: Go to events. Socialize. Meet some gallery owners, find out if they are looking for an artist. Join the Art & Artist Network and look for notices for free or cheap gallery space. Get into more shows. Learn how to market yourself. It's hard, I know!
Skylarian Isachenko: Use FAcebook, Blogs and other media tools also
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Thank you, sound advice
Sasun Steinbeck: You have to stick with it and keep meeting new people. It will result in more invites to big shows, larger galleries, that sort of thing. Yes good point on the social media, leverage facebook, and you REALLY SHOULD have a blog for your gallery
Jayjay Zifanwe: yes
Ginette Pinazzo: yes other online presences are very important..offworld
Jayjay Zifanwe: until it was forced on me
Jayjay Zifanwe: io resisted having a blog
Sasun Steinbeck: if you put your blog's address into your Galleries of SL Kiosk config, I will automatically pick it up for my consolidated gallery feed at http://sasun.info
Jayjay Zifanwe: but its an integral part of the identity now
Sasun Steinbeck: so I'm helping on the blog front! take advantage of it
Bobbi Laval: I find one problem, is there are no common points of contacts for doing press releases in SL, there are so many bloggers and such, but unless you know them personally, if is difficult to send press release to bloggers you don't know are out there
Skylarian Isachenko: there are networked bloggs
Jayjay Zifanwe: Bobbi, what you need to do with bloggers you want
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes Bobbi that's a good point, it kinda come down to knowing which art blogs are the most popular that month. And they do come and go, so it's not easy
Jayjay Zifanwe: is to write to them personally
Jayjay Zifanwe: and talk to them about why what you're doing is interesting/important
Sasun Steinbeck: +1 for Jayjay, he's right
Jayjay Zifanwe: just sending press releases etc won't work too well
Sasun Steinbeck: they appreciate being notified of possible interesting things to write about
Jayjay Zifanwe: needs to be personal follow up
FreeWee Ling: Definitely. The personal encounter is key.
Sasun Steinbeck: just inc ase you do want to go the press release way, check out ow-To do a Press Release: http://www.publicityinsider.com/release.asp
Bobbi Laval: but thats what I mean Jayjay, there are hundreds of ppl out there blogging, and not so easy to find them
Jayjay Zifanwe: if there are hundreds
Jayjay Zifanwe: pick 5
Mathilde Vhargon: I am wondering what percentage of your time you 'successful' gallery owners and artists are spending on promoting and marketing, as opposed to creating and exhibiting the art. It would help to have an idea of proportions that work.
Jayjay Zifanwe: and work with them
Skylarian Isachenko: Chatting up Prim Perfect is a nice way to maybe get an article too
madison Arnahan: Here is one
Ginette Pinazzo: running your owj blog also helps you get into that circle, so to speak
madison Arnahan: http://palaisorleans.blogspot.com/
Adair Chauveau: I'd like to see a RL Gallery and SL Gallery mashup event. with screens of SL at the RL one and screens of the RL one in SL.
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): http://2ndlife5.blogspot.com
Jayjay Zifanwe: chat lag... here is what i said 'If there are hundreds, pick 5 of your favourites and work with them'
madison Arnahan mastering the Art of Shameless Self Promotion
Em Larsson: I wish you had coem to my event Adair
Sasun Steinbeck: Good question Mathilde, I would guess most gallery owners and artists spend very little time promoting, so the people that do can really get ahead
Sandra Lee (sandralee.palianta): shamelessly
Em Larsson: It's not easy though.
Em Larsson: Does anyone use an agent?
madison Arnahan pretend to blush
Sasun Steinbeck: hahah shamelessly is right. Marketing and art do not necessarily go hand in hand. Either learn how or... work with someone that knows how
Em Larsson: Someone who can brag for you?
Skylarian Isachenko: I have in the past but in order to do so, I had to verify them in RL
Skylarian Isachenko: Never, ever trust anyone that will not verify with you in RL
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm getting short on time and I wanted to share this link, a random assortment of resources and tips that may be useful to you
Sasun Steinbeck: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0v5Imt1nZ9PYjdhMjcwOWEtODFkOC00NGRjLWE3ZDQtMzQzMTdmYzNkODgy&hl=en
Callipygian Christensen: It goes back to 'what are your goals'..between promoting andd creating it can eaisly beccome a full time job..so youhave to decide for yourself how important the two sides are and allot your time accordingly
Lyrilen Moonshadow: the networking starts with blog and flickr - you "follow" each other or become members of each other's groups
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes, get your art up on flickr, Deviant Art, Moolto, whatever works for you
Devilana Nirvana: I'm sorry I had to step away for a moment so I hope this is not a repeat question, as I try to scroll through what I missed....but is there a list of all the SL magazines other than just randomly finding them?
Sasun Steinbeck: It can be time-consuming to stay up to speed on all the social networking sites, but pick a few and stick with it
Adair Chauveau: Do those SL mags really help promote art?
Mathilde Vhargon: Do some of you have info or links regarding how to protect art that is pictured in a blog or on Marketplace, etc. or elsewhere for sale... to try to keep the image from being copied?
Sasun Steinbeck: hm Devilana, I would love to have such a list. One thing - you might search for this place called The Rack
Sasun Steinbeck: it has tons and tons of magazine kiosks
Sasun Steinbeck: it's the next best thing to a list
Lyrilen Moonshadow: I have the same question as Adair
Skylarian Isachenko: Low rez, its the most effective, and hidden watermarks
Devilana Nirvana: oh thank you, I will check it out.
Skylarian Isachenko: nothing can stop it being copies by screen shot
Sasun Steinbeck: advertising in magazines is something we haven't touched on, and I don't have much experience in myself, but that is a very interesting option
Devilana Nirvana: well designed watermarks help a great deal
Jewle Rae: I stepped away also ~ I highly recommend anyone interested in learning SL events attend those NIC event classes. Resources provided in them are updated for each session and yes, on the magazines, etc.
Sasun Steinbeck: oh thank you Jewle, does anyone have a website or other reference to the NIC classes?
Jewle Rae: You can IM me for the SURL. I'm such a ditz at this.
Adair Chauveau: Do watermarks and like COPY over the piece help with theft?
Mathilde Vhargon: Is there a place I can get info on how to make a good watermark that is effective?
Lyrilen Moonshadow: you can google it
Callipygian Christensen: I thinkit's NCI, new citizens incorporated, if anyone is earching for it
Lyrilen Moonshadow: there are lots of tutorials on watermarks
Skylarian Isachenko: you have to remember in here, is mostly low rez anyway
Callipygian Christensen: or searching..earching might be painful
Devilana Nirvana: there are several articles online that I have researched and found myself regarding watermarks
Sasun Steinbeck: I purposefully avoided the whole topic of IP protection, copyright, etc. etc. since we could easily spend a few hours on that alone :) But that's also a great topic area to research, how to protect your art
Skylarian Isachenko: so there are very few things you can really do if you put it on the net
Devilana Nirvana: I have a small program called Watermark that can watermark videos and pictures
Sasun Steinbeck: unfortuantely I'm out of time and wanted to thank anyone that needs to go
Jewle Rae: My friend who conducts the sessions is Any Gnoid
Skylarian Isachenko: maintaining proper legal records can help
GeeJAnn Blackadder: I think this is great dialog, and as Sasun said, would be well to discuss this in the group chat
Sasun Steinbeck: I will stay here for a bit but thanks for attending!
Jewle Rae: I've got to get to the machinima meet.
Clovis Luik: very good seminar
Araminta Kroitschov: thanks!
Adair Chauveau: Thank you for this class Sasun.
GeeJAnn Blackadder: Very good Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: I will post the chat log in the ARt Gallery Owners group and on my blog
Mathilde Vhargon: Thank you
Devilana Nirvana: thank you Sasun..this was very helpful
Sasun Steinbeck: so it will be on record
Dyce Underwood: Thank you Sasun very much for the amazing info.
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you everyone I hope you learned a few things! And thanks for those of you that shared your experience
Lyrilen Moonshadow: Thank you Sasun!
FreeWee Ling: Thank you Sasun :)
Skylarian Isachenko: Your talks are always useful
Adair Chauveau: I was wondering about themes and niche art? Like styles trends ethnic? If there is a market for that in SL?
Jayjay Zifanwe: one day we want to hear sasuns voice too in the talks :)
Sasun Steinbeck: my next talk will be for the Art Gallery Owner's group and I'm trying to line up a feedback session with the other memebers of the LEA (Linden Endowment for the Arts) committee
Skylarian Isachenko: must be, there is market for ethnic avs and clothing
Clovis Luik: Niche art works very well for the adult art market
Sasun Steinbeck: the LEA was a bit dead for a while but is back with a new mission and we'd love to get your feedback!
Adair Chauveau: Good point Skylarian. Thanks
Sasun Steinbeck: Lots of cool plans and I hope we can share all that with you at an upcoming meeting
Callipygian Christensen: oh.is the mission posted somwehere?
Ginette Pinazzo: yay LEA!
Sasun Steinbeck: there are old links to the LEA announcement I can dig up, hang on. Our mission is still pretty much the same, just scaled back in a few key areas
Callipygian Christensen: oh, I have the old one somewhere..sorry, I misunderstood there being a new one
Em Larsson: Sasun.. thank you so much for doing this.
Sasun Steinbeck: no, we have not actually made a public announcement since the LEA was revived
Sasun Steinbeck: I expect that to show up on some official LL blog somewhere, so stay tuned
Callipygian Christensen: ah ok, thanks :)
Sasun Steinbeck: you're very welcome, thanks for coming and we can just keep on going for a little bit more unless there's another event we have to leave for, madison?
Bobbi Laval: I was kinda wondering what had happened with that
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah I'm actually very excited about it coming back to life, we are making progress and I know it sucks to be completely in the dark, but progress has been a bit slow
Sasun Steinbeck: it's just crazy difficult to coordinate a dozen people with RL jobs and schedules
Em Larsson: Thanks for all you do on behalf of art
Sasun Steinbeck: but we're doing it
Sasun Steinbeck: well thank you Em ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: I've been so excited to see the art community in SL grow in the last 5 years
Sasun Steinbeck: and mature
Em Larsson: I need to run.. but thanks again Sasun.
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks for coming!
Sasun Steinbeck: I had a great time
Bobbi Laval: take care Em
FreeWee Ling: Me too. Good night all. Thanks Sasun :)
Ginette Pinazzo: thanks Sasun!
madison Arnahan: big hand for Sasun Steinbeck
Mathilde Vhargon: Goodnight. Thanks for the great session!
Kalie Fang: me too, htnak you so much Sasun
madison Arnahan: thanks so much Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: my great pleasure!
Elbereth Exonar: thank you
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you madison for coordinating this!
Luvi Unplugged-Lichlore (luvi.unplugged): Thank you, Susan
Callipygian Christensen: thanks Sasun, Madison
Sasun Steinbeck: madison when is the next talk?
madison Arnahan: Most welcome .. it is an honor
madison Arnahan: Elizabeth Weinberg will speak tomorrow. She is nicknamed the "Promotion Princess" good reason. She will speak on networking, some basics "effective cattle calls " ..and Event Planning.
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm so there
madison Arnahan: While she was curator here .we were selected as an SL Destination Guide pick ..
Sasun Steinbeck: excellent
madison Arnahan: Everyone would want someone like Elizabeth Weinberg on their team . thanks again to all .. please come again
Sasun Steinbeck: we didn't talk about that, I really don't know what the magic formula is for getting into the LL destination guide, which is another great way to promote your gallery
madison Arnahan: thanks once more Sasun
Luvi Unplugged-Lichlore (luvi.unplugged): Thanks, Madison
Clovis Luik: TY
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you madison!
Monday, June 21, 2010
Art Gallery Owners 6-18-2010
The following is a chat log from the 6-18-2010 meeting of the Art Gallery Owners group about the Linden Endowment for the Arts (LEA) project. It may look like I'm a bit slow replying and missed a lot of questions but the reality is that there were just a zillion questions and comments flying so fast I could not keep up! It was simply impossible to answer every question, but there is a lot of great feedback here I will be taking back to the committee. Please read and post your comments!
I have not had time to sort through this and post some answers to some of the missed questions, I'll try to get to that soon and post them here as comments.
Sasun Steinbeck: Welcome everyone! Glad you could make it. Before we get started, first a few ground rules. Please keep the conversations civil, polite, and ON TOPIC. I'll be slow to respond if you IM me since I will probably be doing 10 things at once during the hour.Sasun Steinbeck: Please hold questions for a moment until I open the floor for questions, thanks.
Sasun Steinbeck: This talk will be saved and logged and sent to the entire group. If you say anything, I'm going to assume you are ok with allowing me to log this discussion, distribute it, and post it on my blog.
Sasun Steinbeck: Our agenda today: the Linden Endowment for the Arts (LEA). If you have not seen our first update, please take a quick look at http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/06/16/linden-endowment-for-the-arts-update
Sasun Steinbeck: For a list of committee members, see http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Linden_Endowment_for_the_Arts_Committee
Sasun Steinbeck: In the update blog post, 5 high-level goals were listed. The committee will be hard at work turning those goals into specific plans to accomplish them. The purpose of the meeting today is to get your feedback as valuable members of the art community and raise any concerns you may have.
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd like to open the floor to questions and feedback. I will be taking your feedback back to the committee for us to consider as we work up our plans in the near future. Thank you!
Sasun Steinbeck: one piece of feedback that I've heard is that people don't want the LEA projects to "compete" with existing art galleries and art sims in SL
Chloe Mineff: Susposedly they won't according to the blog
Skylarian Isachenko: I am wondering if there will be a way to sell RL art via SL so that we do not have to mess with the fuss of revealing identies for those that are sensitive about it
Sasun Steinbeck: hm interesting question, it may be unavoidable since you are shipping a RL item to a RL address
Lizzo Dreamscape: ok. read the update. Question already: will this affect Burning Life? (I love Burning Life)
Skylarian Isachenko: Unless LL provided a billing system and shipping system we could use, yes.
Sasun Steinbeck: selling RL art is something that we hope comes as a consequence of promiting virtual art in SL but not something we will be working on specifically, I don't think
Petal Fairlock: you could use a po box with your avatar name
Sasun Steinbeck: hm no, this won't change Burning LIfe at all
Skylarian Isachenko: Well, I did not expect it would be, but it was a question.
FreeWee Ling: Doesn't there have to be a feed before there can be feedback? I've feel there's been a real lack of transparency and information about LEA.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes FreeWee I agree, the recent blog post is a start to getting more info out
Sasun Steinbeck: there really isn't a lot to share, we don't have detailed plans to even share yet
FreeWee Ling: I know several people who signed up for at the original request for participation and no one ever heard a thing.
Sasun Steinbeck: Yeah I assume that LL didn't contact everyone that applied, since I've heard that from lots of others
FreeWee Ling: An acknowledgement would have been nice.
Sasun Steinbeck: I can't speak for them so I'm not sure what the policy was on that. Yes I agree, that's a good piece of feedback I'll take back, thank you
Skylarian Isachenko: An endowment sort of means someone spending money for the arts, but I take it we will not see any of that on a personal basis
Soundsmith Kamachi: The defition of art is an intersting question, will this be a very strict or loose one?
Elise Benusconi: Sasun, would it be asking too much to get an overview of the sort of work you have been doing so far with the committee?
Sasun Steinbeck: don't be too sure Skylarian :)
Molly Montale: the list of committee members is as good as anyone could ever hope for (IMHO)
Peoney Feld: Sasun, in general, how will it all work?
Elise Benusconi: I'm just hoping to get some perspective on the committee's focus.
White Hyacinth: It looks like LL is very interested in "The Arts" lately; maybe they see a business opportunity?
Sasun Steinbeck: we have been debating all kinds of ways to help the art community and some type of endowment is in the mix too. Whether that becomes a reality, who knows
Peoney Feld: individual artists?
Maggi Mint: exactly who or what will benefit from the "endowment", RL art organizations? RL aritsits? what are the parameters?
Lizzo Dreamscape: my question too, Peony.
Skylarian Isachenko: Well, I suspect they are looking to gain more large entities entering sl just as they did with education
FreeWee Ling: How was the committee decided? I don;t disagree with the choices, just the process?
Sasun Steinbeck: Elise, so far it's been mostly meetings - we have so many issues to discuss. At this point in time we've finally solidified our high-level goals that you've seen in that post
Sasun Steinbeck: we have a lot of discussion to do to organize the art shows and really figure out what other projects we will be starting up to get those goals accomplished
Eliza Wierwight: In what way , subsidizing tiers ?
Zachh Cale: Thanks Sasun for pointing out this new blogpost - do you know yet how LL specifically plans to not compete with existing galleries? A lot of us have been paying to help present art content for SL, so I believe many of us are wondering how it could not compete, especially since SL owns the servers and the website promotion channels?
Sasun Steinbeck: Maggi that is under discussion, all of the above is being considered
Sasun Steinbeck: and let me clarify
Sasun Steinbeck: it's not specifically "RL" artists - but virtual art is what we are all about
Skylarian Isachenko: I would not mind seeing the linden homes be allowed to be a gallery
Lizzo Dreamscape: cool.
Sasun Steinbeck: Second Life art, specficially :)
Skylarian Isachenko: yes, but we are all real artists I hope
Sasun Steinbeck: which includes the idea that SL is a great place to exhibit and display RL art, too
Sasun Steinbeck: we are not shutting out 2D artists, in other words
Skylarian Isachenko: just because its virtual it should still be Real
Sasun Steinbeck: it's all real to us :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm getting behind on questions so bear with me
Skylarian Isachenko: You should be able to buy an RL print of the art for instance
Peoney Feld: people do that already, Sky
Sasun Steinbeck: White, my personal take on the business aspect is that LL sees this as another thing to bring new residents in, having a thriving creative art community is good for LL too
Sasun Steinbeck: but they really haven't given us any specific business reason why they are doing this
Peoney Feld: talk to Filthy Fluno for example, Sky
Peoney Feld: thanks, Sasun
Lizzo Dreamscape: idk why we have more artists. Let's have more artists!
Skylarian Isachenko: I know they do, I do it myself,
Sasun Steinbeck: FreeWee, I don't know what the committee criteria was... I'm hoping that LL gives the existing committee members some part of the process when we inevitably have to replace someone on the committee - not sure how that is going to work at this time
Skylarian Isachenko: but, LL could make it possible to buy a print through xstreet for instance and do the shipping and handling
FreeWee Ling: ty
Sasun Steinbeck: Zachh, regarding the competition issue - that is a common concern
Sasun Steinbeck: One thing that we will be thinking about a lot is how best to help the big art sims already in existance
Sasun Steinbeck: they have been around a lot longer than the LEA! They know "how it's done" and how to be successful
Ally Aeon: that would be nice
Sasun Steinbeck: so we want to support them "where they are" in some way. how we do that hasn't been discussed very much so I don't really know at this point
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd love to hear what you think would be the best way to support those types of big art galleries and art sims
Chloe Mineff: I am curious about having several sims packed with artwork, wouldnt this be a bit overwhelming?
Tia Macbain: well the NEA offers support and funding for projects exhibiting artistic excellence...they offer support
Skylarian Isachenko: Well if your going to hold large events, and use large sims in a similar manner to LL events, wont the galleries and artists get a bit lost, I mean people can get overwhelmed pretty fast.
Chloe Mineff: ao how are they landscaping/building it out?
Skylarian Isachenko: GM and all that
Maggi Mint: tier allotment, tier grants would be a nice way to support a gallery
Tia Macbain: not neccessarily own a mega gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: The LEA complex is not going to be 70 sims when it opens, contrary to what you may have heard, it will start off with maybe 5-6 sims, so considiering the huge number of existing galleries, it won't be *that* huge an addition to the mix
Lizzo Dreamscape: But the NEA also excercises Censorship.
Peoney Feld: hmkmm
Ally Aeon: I bleieve there is a lot of good in place such as your Gallery Tour system Sasun aslo the artist Guild group and the Gallery Owner gorup I consider to be something that helps a lot. So maybe it could be build on that.
Peoney Feld: yes, what about that?
Peoney Feld: censorship
Tia Macbain: sure lizzo...but if you think we arent censored to any degree now...
Lizzo Dreamscape: Just a comment....
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes Ally I definitely want to leverage what we already have in terms of the gallery list and tour hud
Zachh Cale: Thanks Sasun - I think one way would be to have a similar application process as was explained for artists to the LEA - gallery owners could apply to LL to have their tier waived?
Tia Macbain: and it is just a RL example of what the LEA could branch out to be
Lizzo Dreamscape: I agree with supporting Sasun's system. It ROCKS!
Maggi Mint: tier allotment, tier grants would be a nice way to support a gallery or providing space for artists would help a lot
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing that we all agree on is that there must be a really great, very useful - easy to use nexus where we can send people to YOUR galleries from the LEA complex
Skylarian Isachenko: There are always some limits to what you can display, just as society sets limits on anything
Molly Montale: could there ever be a repeat of the Burning Life "nipplegate" from a couple of years ago?
FreeWee Ling: So if there's an established gallery on a private sim, will there be any support for that? Or will the big guys have a competitive advantage?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Zachh if we can get something like that approved, we'd definiteyl have some kind of application process
Elise Benusconi: It is hard to see how setting up additional real estate is going to be as effective as supporting the current system. That said, I am sure that an announcement that LL will underwrite "art" sims would result in a new glut of "galleries" suddently opening.
Skylarian Isachenko: WEll, you need a walk through portal that just takes you there without all this map teleport business
Zachh Cale: Sasun, that would be GREAT, because then many of us could easily maintain the cost of events more
Sasun Steinbeck: haha Molly, great question actually. We will be discussing if/how we will support art that may fall into the "adult" category
Tricia Aferdita nods
Doran Forzane: Sensorship of art, will possibly be one of LEA's biggest issues, LL may need to have a Mature or Adult sim as part of LEA
Peoney Feld: There should be anohter category for art....not adult,
Peoney Feld: Artistic freedom and license is essential for
Skylarian Isachenko: Non sexual nudes should not be adult
Skylarian Isachenko: Mature, yes, but not adult
Peoney Feld: real creativity
Lizzo Dreamscape: oooo.. interesting Peony.
Sasun Steinbeck: and I'm *sure* we will be discussing suitability of all the Mature art (artistic nudes, etc.) that will undoubtably show up on the sims
Peoney Feld: sexual nudes should not be adult if it is art
Peoney Feld: my goodness
Sasun Steinbeck: we really really really really do not want to get into the censorship game
Peoney Feld: do museums censor
Carly Frequency: one possibilty would be for LL to treat art groups as nonprofits for tier discounts -- without us having to incorporate in RL - the larger art sims, at least
Peoney Feld: art for children?
Doran Forzane: however in the TOS and standards LL do have a vague clause that could be used to get around their rating policy
Tia Macbain: i think the idea of a mega gallery is a form of competitiveness
Tia Macbain: and not really useful
Ally Aeon: yes I think LL should define where they drwa the line what is mature or adult art
FreeWee Ling: They going to ban megaprims?
Sasun Steinbeck: I agree P eoney, I'm speaking specifically of the LL adult guidelines, not the popular definition
Maggi Mint: any thing considered for a grant should be all original, copyright owned work...not knock offs of other pples art or imports of encyclopedia art
Peoney Feld: yes, but maybe there can be an art category
Skylarian Isachenko: I hae a terrible time with large stores rezing all the images, I can just imagine the night mare of a very large collection of art
Peoney Feld: that embraces everything
Sasun Steinbeck: hm not sure FreeWee, I'll have to ask about that
Maggi Mint: any thing considered for a grant should be all original, copyright owned work...not knock offs of other pples art or imports of encyclopedia ar
Sasun Steinbeck: we are going to be very hard core about copyright, don't worry about that
Lizzo Dreamscape: Good Maggi.
Tricia Aferdita: what would be nice is if it were perhaps a source of annex galleries for existing galleries within SL... a central hub in general that was almost like a walk through version of Sasun's HUD
Ghosty Kips: I think the term we need to focus on, instead of the confusing "adult" or "mature", is "erotic art". This is where I think LL is going to draw a line, and call it what they will
Peoney Feld: I have been looking at nudes in books and in paintings since I was a child...
Peoney Feld: museums, too
Peoney Feld: nude paintings
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Ghosty it will be interesting to see what happens :)
Peoney Feld: how do you think I got to be interesetd in art?
Skylarian Isachenko: your also dealing with an international situation, but US law applies
Peoney Feld: and learned early
Lizzo Dreamscape: hahaha!!
Soundsmith Kamachi: I would fidn it more intersting that such an art sim provides a short presentation of existing galleries, e.g. with tp point, short description
Peoney Feld: got good influences
FreeWee Ling: I think a fundamental question is who much autonomy with the board have? Will they get to decide what's art and whether to allow megaprim? Or is LL going to have final say?
Tia Macbain: I agree Soundsimith
Soundsmith Kamachi: instead of being soemthing taht becoemsa competition
Tia Macbain: now THAT is useful
Peoney Feld: learned anatomy before high school
Lizzo Dreamscape: I am with you, FreeWee.
Carly Frequency: I agree with Soundsmith as well
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Soundsmith that will be something I will push for very hard is some kind of innovative cool way to educate visitors about all the great existing galleries in SL and some easy way for them to launch over to them from the LEA
Carly Frequency: a portal to the art experience in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: we do NOT want to suck people from existing galleries to the LEA, on the contrary, that's where people will go to find out what the heck this art in SL thing is all about and we want to send them out to explore your places too!
Skylarian Isachenko: Well, in my world Peoney, you would likely be in a very bad space by now then, I live in a very conservative area
Sasun Steinbeck: The LEA sims are ideal for a big semi-annual art festival, too
Em Larsson: How will you decide who you send people to?
FreeWee Ling: I think the people in this room trust the board a lot more than they trust LL.
Em Larsson: anyone who wants to receive people, or will you choose?
Sasun Steinbeck: sort of another big art event to add to the mix of existing artistic/creative events like SL7B and BL
Zachh Cale: Does the Destination Guide currently do that on the website? Or are you talking about inworld only?
Peoney Feld: thank goodness I grew up where I did, in a house filled with culture ;)
Sacha Swindlehurst doubts linden has the faintest clue about art
Sasun Steinbeck: good question Em, we need to figure that out
Sasun Steinbeck: we have a good start with my gallery list, but that's certainly not an exhaustive list of every gallery in SL
Skylarian Isachenko: SLB and BL are themed, we do not really have much freedom
Skylarian Isachenko: its a challenge rather than creative freedom
Sasun Steinbeck: yes true Sky, the LEA events will be much more open in that regard
Skylarian Isachenko: nods
Sasun Steinbeck: we may have smaller themed events, who knows
Ghosty Kips: I'd like to see artists put SOME of their art in this central exhibit, with landmarks and so forth to draw people from this big draw to our indivitual galleries. At the same time, we should be able to promote our own entries at this big exhibit, and people can be free to "art walk" around to other artists after arriving
Sasun Steinbeck: all yet to be determined :)
FreeWee Ling: Hopefully more like NPIRL.
Chloe Mineff: SL is an adult place.. children shouldn't be here in the first place. but ther are conservatives who need to be considered.
Maggi Mint: One way to encourage both art and premium accounts ownership might be to alot (2) 512 tier free (a 1024) to anyone who buys a premium account and puts up an at gallery, of original art
Sasun Steinbeck: yes absolutely Ghosty, thanks for that
Skylarian Isachenko: well, we do have the ability to have slide show prims so we can show a lot of art with a few prims
Sasun Steinbeck: hm interesting, I'd love to see something like that Maggi
Nima Benoir: Now that's a great idea Maggi!
Sasun Steinbeck: sorry if I skipped over anyone's question! If you'd like an answer please paste it again for me
Ghosty Kips: and a free 512 on top of tier wouldnt hurt :o)
Skylarian Isachenko: And make them prove it original art too
Sasun Steinbeck: too much chat lol :)
White Hyacinth: I think LL waiving tier in any form is unlikely to happen
Skylarian Isachenko: which means they will have to show who they are in RL
Em Larsson: so the idea is to encourage more art, or more people viewing the art that is here?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes we will be very strict about the original art requirement
Lizzo Dreamscape: I hope machinima will be included.
Sasun Steinbeck: the very last thing we want is stolen art shown at the LEA, omg.
Soundsmith Kamachi: i was curious about the definition of art - veyr tricky one
Em Larsson: indeed!
Sasun Steinbeck: machinima most definitely!
Sasun Steinbeck: we have some well known machinematographers on the LEA
Molly Montale: the live music folks are hoping to be included
Elise Benusconi: Any effort LL would make to underwrite tier costs will open up a whole world of abuse by those who wish to have the land and no interest in supporting the arts. So it is something they are unlikely to undertake.
Eliza Wierwight: I'd be wary of people trying to acquire 'free'tiers using the Gallery premise as a foothold , tricky times , especially if that's intended to lure people Inworld
Sasun Steinbeck: yes definitely Molly, that's part of the plan!
Tia Macbain: you sure this isnt a way to control content and to find a way to control copyrights
Tia Macbain: juss askin.
Sasun Steinbeck: we don't know how that will look, but SL musicians will be part of the mix
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Peoney Feld: no one can control your copyrights in your artwork
Elise Benusconi: I would much rather see LL take a proactive approach to introducing current and new residents to all the art that is already here.
Peoney Feld: unless you sell them or license them
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Elise and Eliza that's good feedbak
Peoney Feld: I agree, Elise
Skylarian Isachenko: Control in here is much less a concern than what they are doing in various legeslatures in rl
Em Larsson: I agree.. bring people to see what exists.. those of us who have been doing it already for a long time out of love.
Elise Benusconi: Perhaps distributing the gallery tour to all residents or at least offering it.
Sasun Steinbeck: we would most likely have some kind of application process so that the committee can evaluate each grant (if that comes to pass) on the merits of the art
White Hyacinth: So the LEA as a pointer to good stuff in-world seems to be the best way to go
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Em good point, and we want to support you guys that have been doing it for Sasun Steinbeck: if you have any ideas on how we can ... let me know :)
the love of it for all this time
Maggi Mint: anybody can figure out a way to abuse any system Elsie, if that is your criteria for determining how to proceed, then you will stop dead in your tracks at every turn
Van Caerndow: I love filling out grant forms
Peoney Feld: you know, you dont want to become so sophisticated as to discourage new artists in SL
Doran Forzane: Peoney, actually, if you dont hold a copyright of your artwork before you bring it into SL. Then LL place a copyright on it
Elise Benusconi: Offering an at tutorial at gateway communities...perhaps offering an "art buddy" to help show a new resident around, or at least offering a strong understanding of how to find and participate in the art world here.
Molly Montale: megaprims?
Lizzo Dreamscape: Good Em.
FreeWee Ling: The artists in SL are pushing what can be done with the technology. LL loves that. It's good PR and they learn what their product can and can't do. That's their motivation. We're all beta tester in technology and running businesses off creative work.
Ghosty Kips: well, i can say that, if LL is hoping to use art as a way to being people back to SL, then it's a good thing. it's where we shoud have been headed a year or two ago
Petal Fairlock: good idea elise!
Skylarian Isachenko: I have over a thousand RL works of original art, But I prefer a more intimate gallery, not that fond of huge builds
Peoney Feld: your original artwork is protected by common law
Peoney Feld: if you register it in DC
Sasun Steinbeck: yes true, part of the plan Peoney is to educate residents all about SL art, so we want to have a really cool experience for someone new to SL that happens to be an artist, how they might get plugged in.
Peoney Feld: that is an additional protection
Peoney Feld: important, for diff readons
Peoney Feld: but no one can taake it from you
Peoney Feld: yes, help them get started
Em Larsson: Are you saying we don't own ourart unless Washington says we do? Does Washington allow foreigners to register it?
Sacha Swindlehurst: elaborate doran?
quadrapop Lane: and the non-artists - new folks love the art sims I send em too - over the real estate and "malls"
Sasun Steinbeck: Skylarian, that's a good point, I know sometimes when I go to a huge art complex I get a bit overwhelmed. I'd love to hear any ideas on how we can have a huge art complex but not just completely overwhelm people with it
Peoney Feld: I have seen the number of artists burgeoning..people get lost in the shuffle
Peoney Feld: no Em
Tia Macbain: dont have huge complex...:)
Skylarian Isachenko: Make wiki with the art on it, thats how
quadrapop Lane: make it searchable
Sasun Steinbeck: yes we need to think about how we can make it fun and easy for someone new
Elise Benusconi: How about some out of world PR on behalf of SL artists?
Peoney Feld: I am saying when you create a drawing, eg., you own the copyrights to it automaticallyl
Skylarian Isachenko: give them Out world access to view the art without the overhead of SL
Sasun Steinbeck: hm interesting idea Elise
Em Larsson: no?
quadrapop Lane: have a really good tp or info system
Em Larsson: oh oh
Em Larsson: I see
Peoney Feld: if you want the protection of the federal coprytight low, then register it
Doran Forzane: There are some terms used in the TOS that I hope LEA are going to suggest with LL that need to be changed
Skylarian Isachenko: I send lots of folk to my web galleries
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe what we could do is pull together some info on copyright protection as it pertains to SL art/artists
Peoney Feld: dont let anyone talk you out of what you own
Sasun Steinbeck: I know that's a super confusing subject
Maggi Mint: registering with washington is just EXTRA protection, you establish a copyright by adding the notice to your work
Em Larsson: no for sure
Nima Benoir: You mean like an online art gallery Elise?
Doran Forzane: Sasun and I have spoken about them, its for another time
Elise Benusconi: I don't wish to seem self-serving, but I am currently setting up an art commerce website, and I am happy to open it to SL artists with RL art to sell...and will happily identify the art by SL names, etc.
Peoney Feld: well, it's more troublesome since many countries do not pay attentin to US copyright laws
Zachh Cale: What about having an application process for existing galleries to reside on SL funded sims? Many are already showing great art....
Elise Benusconi: Yes, Nima..I am starting an online gallery/sales site.
Doran Forzane: you can digimarc your art though and it is retained in SL as long as your image is noless than 256x256
sandhya2 Patel: that is wonderful
Sasun Steinbeck: Doran that's a good suggestion, we are going to get clear permission from everyone showing art at the LEA, nothing will be shown without permission, at least
Ghosty Kips: one ideawould be to separate by types of art. inworld sculpture, rl painting, digital, music, whathave you. instead of having everything in one place, if we have 5-6 sims, lets use those sims for different types of art so artists can focus on the niche markets that like their style or medium of works.
Molly Montale: It would be cool if the LEA sims have their own blog for pictures and news
Skylarian Isachenko: Deviant Art for instance is useful and free resource that you can make a gallery for your work and use in conjuction wiht SL to sell your work
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Lizzo Dreamscape: From what I have heard so far... why not concentrate first and foremost on a Central Area that expands on what Sasun has done. And we can all participate in creating a Central location that serves as a place for revolving exhibits of all kinds.
Elise Benusconi: Yes, Deviant Art is excellent.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Ghosty, good idea. we could slice and dice the categories in a lot of different ways
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes Molly we want that too!
Peoney Feld: a good thing for the NEA to work on is finding a way for original art not to be photographed, some kind of tech filter
Ally Aeon: How about LL allows for its residents to show their gallery and art id they are in that field on the SL website
Skylarian Isachenko: Digimarc gets very expensive
Sasun Steinbeck: what if we had a whole web page for the LEA? with a blog and other cool stuff. educational materials, introductory stuff, etc.?
Sasun Steinbeck: a web page on secondlife.com?
Skylarian Isachenko: and links to artists websites
Eliza Wierwight: I'm not keen on that idea of categorisation at all for myself , not a bit
Elise Benusconi: That sounds like a great idea, Sasun! :-)
FreeWee Ling: I don't like categories. Causes segmentation. Separation. Segregation.
quadrapop Lane: what if your art is 3d and sl only? how do you advertise outside of sl?
Peoney Feld: I presume that LL is not going to want a cut of art
Peoney Feld: proceeds
Em Larsson: Sounds good Sasun
Skylarian Isachenko: take a phtoos and put it up like any woark
quadrapop Lane: take photos? doesn't do much of thatr stuff justice
Sasun Steinbeck: yes quad it could be a mine field and there's more than one way to categorize
Skylarian Isachenko: same thinig with a sculpture
Skylarian Isachenko: photo graph it
Elise Benusconi: Video, Quadrapop.
Callipygian Christensen: I'd never assume that Peoney lol
Elise Benusconi: ScreenFlow is a great, free tool you can use.
Peoney Feld: I dont assume it
Peoney Feld: lol
Skylarian Isachenko: short video clips are also a good thought
Maya Paris: web page sounds like a great idea Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I wanted to point out and get feedback on is this whole concept of "archiving" art
Peoney Feld: I hope that they are not
Sasun Steinbeck: we want to SAVE all this cool stuff
Ally Aeon: soem of us use the profile we have in sl already to show what we do in sl, and I think it would be super if there woudl be something like that on the SL webside
Sasun Steinbeck: things in SL can be so ephemeral
Sasun Steinbeck: here today, gone tomorrow
Sasun Steinbeck: how can we save a record of all this cool art?
FreeWee Ling: The archive is critical. I think that's the most important job of this plan.
quadrapop Lane: video might but really think odf some of the more immersive and interactive art that can only exist and be experienced in sl - that is the kind of thing that needs to be preserved by LL and LEA is perfect for that
Peoney Feld: well, that needs permission, too
Sasun Steinbeck: the current fuzzy plan is to have a special Linden account (I vote for "Art Linden" LOL)
Zachh Cale: Sasun, I think that's an excellent point - I would love to see your committee working on that first - so many things are disappearing now
Ghosty Kips: i have no issue with their archiving art, so long as our rights and copyrights are protected. we as artists should have FULL control over the content even after it's archived.
Sasun Steinbeck: that can accept donations of art
Peoney Feld: hmmm
Sasun Steinbeck: for archival purposes
Peoney Feld: very interesting Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: we really haven't discussed it much, so we need ideas
White Hyacinth: Similar to the time capsule?
FreeWee Ling: LIke a museum
Elise Benusconi: Wayback Machine for SL....
Sasun Steinbeck: perhaps Art Linden can whip out some of those exhibits... perhaps even full sims! for future shows maybe
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah a wayback machine :)
Skylarian Isachenko: Is Art LInden still a LInden?
Sasun Steinbeck: they can take a snapshot of an entire sim... like a rollback, right?
Skylarian Isachenko: they lost so many of them
Zachh Cale: I think if that is the main function of the LEA, archival, then SL gets it's own mega gallery, and it doesn't compete with existing galleries
Peoney Feld: well, if LL makes use of archived art for commercial purposes, the artist shoud be compensated
Sasun Steinbeck: was there an Art Linden?
Sasun Steinbeck: haha I don't remember
Zachh Cale: there are TONS of exciting exhibits that many STILL have not seen
Elise Benusconi: Like rezboxes....click and everthing stored falls back into place.
Zachh Cale: and they are disappearing
Sasun Steinbeck: Peoney at this time I believe the current plan is for donations only
Skylarian Isachenko: We lost most of those we have worked with in the past, so I dont know
Sasun Steinbeck: but that's a really good point
Peoney Feld: kk
Skylarian Isachenko: Cost a lot of money to maintain these sims
Lizzo Dreamscape: yes! and private corporations like IBM have sponsored AMAZING things... where do they fit?
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah we don't want those amazing sims you've seen vanish forever
Tia Macbain: not if they are linden sims
Peoney Feld: I just want LL to treat art as the valuable thing it is.....
Maggi Mint: good point peony ----[15:36] Peoney Feld: I presume that LL is not going to want a cut of art --- is this "grant" really going to be jus a way for LL to increase THEIR income, like Xstreet became?
Peoney Feld: and it is worth money
Skylarian Isachenko: A lot of the corporates are going behind firewalls and not doing as much as they used to
Ghosty Kips: well, big companies like IBM can fork up their own sims if they like :)
Sasun Steinbeck: since land is one thing we will have plenty of, one thing I hope we can do is a lot of whole-sim art installations
Lizzo Dreamscape: No, Ghostly. I don't agree. They should be valued too.
Peoney Feld: I think artists should get free space somehow
Zachh Cale: Yes! Archiving so many full sim installations would be a huge service to the sl community
Peoney Feld: if there is so much darned space..
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes Peoney, we will be giving out lots of free space for artists to exhibit on the LEA sims
Peoney Feld: yay
Peoney Feld: lol
Em Larsson: Wow
Sasun Steinbeck: and we will grow beyond the initial 5-6-ish sims if needed
Skylarian Isachenko: Well, each sim is another processor and there is a limit there
Skylarian Isachenko: Archiving entire sims is going to take serious resources
Doran Forzane: big companies like IBM are actually not in aliance with Linden Labs anymore. That went sour
Chloe Mineff: Sasun did anyone address Peopny's comment? [15:36] Peoney Feld: a good thing for the NEA to work on is finding a way for original art not to be photographed, some kind of tech filter
Em Larsson: did it?
Callipygian Christensen: my question too quad,,if SL would let me stay on the grid to ask it lol
Ghosty Kips: that would be excellent, esp for us 2D artists
Sasun Steinbeck: ok that is some great feedback thank you Peoney, I agree that would be great
Chloe Mineff: taht is crucial to thwart stealing.
Skylarian Isachenko: That is pretty much impossible, in order to view it, you can capture it
Em Larsson: I like Peony's idea
Skylarian Isachenko: Nature of the beast
quadrapop Lane: ty sasun
Peoney Feld: I wonder if technicallly, there is some way to do it Sasun
Em Larsson: Even if they could, would it stay with art after it has been sold?
Sasun Steinbeck: technical solutions tend to be the least effective though... for each scheme you come up with, someone cracks it
Peoney Feld: maybe LL could work on it
Elise Benusconi: Why couldn't the ability to photograph be a permission that can be turned on and off by estate management controls?
Doran Forzane: you can do that in the estate convenant, its the only place you can stop the photography of art on a sim
Elise Benusconi: Someone really determined could still do a print-screen, but that wouldn't be most people.
Skylarian Isachenko: you can always screen cap
Zachh Cale: Well you can take screenshots of anything
Skylarian Isachenko: you cannot stop that
quadrapop Lane: cos sl snapshots are screen shots lol
Sasun Steinbeck: so don't hold your breath :) BUT if there is some very good way that could stop the vast majority, that's something we can lean on LL to provide for the art community
Em Larsson: But then, if you sold a work.. and it were displayed somewhere else....
Chloe Mineff: yes liek some web sites like snopes disallow copy and paste
Skylarian Isachenko: you can still cap them,
Sasun Steinbeck: interesting idea, I wonder if there is a jira for that type of snapshot permission already?
Skylarian Isachenko: once its in your video merory you can manipulate it
Maggi Mint: watermark your art if you are afraid someone will photograph it
White Hyacinth: You may have noticed it is impossible to screen capture Windows media player. These things can be enforced (and I hate that ;) )
Sasun Steinbeck: seems like there are some tough challenges to make that work
Peoney Feld: by the way, anything I said about copyright should not be construed as my discouraging anyone from registering in DC
Sasun Steinbeck: like being a sim away and zooming in for a snap :)
Peoney Feld: on the contrary
Skylarian Isachenko: I have never had a problem capturing anything at all on my screen
Doran Forzane: best solution to protect against snapshots is digimarc, you should all be using digimarc for your art
Skylarian Isachenko: Thats fine if you have a lot of money to spend
Peoney Feld: would like to know more about that, Doran
Sasun Steinbeck: hm if there is something we can do on the LEA sims to discourage any kind of theft... be it snaps or whatnot... I'd be all for that
Skylarian Isachenko: it costs to use digimarc
Skylarian Isachenko: commercial service
Dragomir Greenwood: I have watermak strips over the art in my gallery. Doesn't affect the final purchased art
Em Larsson wonders what digimark is.
Sasun Steinbeck: hmmm I'll have eto google that later and educate myself on digimarc
Skylarian Isachenko: electronic signature
Doran Forzane: yes, but it is the only way to truely protect an digital version of any image
Em Larsson: me too
Skylarian Isachenko: embeded in the file
sandhya2 Patel: wonders how to do watermark strip
Sasun Steinbeck: I wonder if something like that coudl be supplied as a service on the LEA sims... or some kind of anti-theft technology if such a thingn exists. as long as it doesn't interfere with the enjoyment of the art...
Skylarian Isachenko: It can however be striped out with the right tools so its not fool proof
Callipygian Christensen: arriving late, did I miss information on how space in the sims is to be assigned?
Dragomir Greenwood: I have a png logo on a prim accross the art
Sasun Steinbeck: Hi Callipygian, haven't really talk about that, we don't really have a detailed plan how that is going to happen
Skylarian Isachenko: in reality the resolution of art in sl is so low its pretty useless for anything but in sl
Sasun Steinbeck: we do know there will be an application process for exhibit space on the LEA sims
Doran Forzane: There is no reason why LL couldnt own digimarc and when someone uploads a texture it applies a digimarc unique to the account uploading
Dragomir Greenwood: Thieves are lazy, the work it would take to remove is not worth their effort
Maya Paris: is copyright really the big issue here? i'd like to hear more about the LEA plans
Sasun Steinbeck: the committee will process those applications and decide yes/no based on the merits of the work
Sasun Steinbeck: other than that we don't know how it will be divided up
Zachh Cale: Sasun, do you know the business reason behind creating an SL mega gallery as opposed to supporting existing galleries ? Have you hear any discussion of that, or is that a new idea?
Doran Forzane: it would be a cost though to LL
Callipygian Christensen: ah,thanks Sasun - I realize those pushing the envelope of tech are vvery attractive to LL, but I hope there is also space for old fashioned 2d pretties too :)
Tia Macbain: good question Zachh
Lizzo Dreamscape: I love it when the artists put their names across their artwork on Xstreet... I use them for quickly made posters for their shows... hehe
Skylarian Isachenko: yes, considering there are hundreds of thousands of textures uploaded every day
Tia Macbain: [15:48] Zachh Cale: Sasun, do you know the business reason behind creating an SL mega gallery as opposed to supporting existing galleries ? Have you hear any discussion of that, or is that a new idea?
Maggi Mint: the resolution of the tiny artworks we have in here is so low as to make it imposible to reproduce in a RL format and that is where the biggest concern for theft would be
Sasun Steinbeck: Zachh we definitely want to do both, we want to support existing art sims/galleries and also have an art nexus, and a good starting point/place for someone interested in art in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: We want to promote art with o ur regular events too
Elise Benusconi: lol Lizzo
Sasun Steinbeck: including music, machinema, live performance art, etc.
Em Larsson: I wonder if you are not in the big gallery, will you just get pushed out?
Ghosty Kips: yes, id like to see the LL mega exhibit used to promote us and out own galleries, not the other way around
Tia Macbain: thats about everything I do on my sim now....guess I better think of somethng new
Doran Forzane: Thats an interesting one EM, something I have thought about
Sasun Steinbeck: Em we want to avoid that for sure, I don't think that 5-6 more sims is going to push anyone out of the arts at this point though
Em Larsson: Well, I wonder why LL is interested in art,
Zachh Cale: Does LL feel that existing galleries do not give new artists a chance? It sounds like LL will have an application process so they will be choosing artists as well....
Sasun Steinbeck: however we will probably grow, and we want to do it in a way that doesn't steal visitors from your galleries too
Em Larsson: OK.. I'm sure that is not YOUR intention. I didn't mean to imply that.
Sasun Steinbeck: as I mentioned we want to push them [visitors] OUT to all the cool places to see
Molly Montale: Desmond Shang raises an interesting point on the blog, that the LEA will create winners and losers from those who want to participate with many more losers than winners creating the possibility of hurt feelings and ill will
Em Larsson: I certainly believe you.
Doran Forzane: I would EM, I would shut Angel down. If it became a cost I couldnt bear anymore
Skylarian Isachenko: Hmmm Screenflow is for Macs.. useless to me., al well
Sasun Steinbeck: Molly that's a good point, but as it was raised by someone else... artists regularly get rejected for art shows, it's just a part of life. They can't expect a "yes" from everyone
Tia Macbain: i would turn tiatopia into a giant sandbox.
Carly Frequency: This is a different tack - but I'd ike to see the group reach out to RL art schools to come view our work as easily- reached galleries of diverse art for them to study - and encourage more artists to come here in that way, too
Sasun Steinbeck: we have lots of artists... some are going to be told no, it's inevitable
Lizzo Dreamscape: GREAT Carly.
Sasun Steinbeck: ooooo Carly. I really like that idea.
FreeWee Ling: Will private art-oriented sims be able to apply to move to an LEA sim? Or to be subsidized?
Sasun Steinbeck: that you very much
Elise Benusconi: Love that idea, Carly!
Sasun Steinbeck: FreeWee I hope we have some details on that soon!
Skylarian Isachenko: One thing we need desperately is an actually usable artists inventory system, one that does not take an entire day to try and sort through the art.
Zachh Cale: Well I don't understand the business reason for competing with existing galleries who pay LL to present content for SL - so why not just have the LEA be a permanent archive for all the wonderful exhibits that are rapidly disappearing from existing galleries and sims? Just an idea, don't mean to put you on the spot Sasun...
Sasun Steinbeck: we are discussing that, most definitely. Do you have any ideas other than a subsidy how we can best support art sims?
Doran Forzane: LEA will need a criteria, it will need a due diligence process like any RL gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL Sky, as a collector myself, I agree
Elise Benusconi: By promoting them, Sasun....if it can't be cash, it should be reach.
Dragomir Greenwood: Give them sample galleries in the sim
Carly Frequency: advertising, Sas
Sasun Steinbeck: no Zachh, please put me on the spot :) that's great feedback
FreeWee Ling: Well, directing traffic helps, but the problem with maintaining a sim is the obscene cost.
Skylarian Isachenko: I happen to know a very large university director of virtual resources, I will speak with her about the idea of the college of art having a presence here in SL
Tricia Aferdita: this would be a good opportunity to show SL as more than a big sex game
Carly Frequency: LEA can have lots of posters and ads for original art - everywhere
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Doran, we'll have a defined process for sure, it won't be haphazard. it's all yet to be worked out though. Any ideas are welcome!
Zachh Cale: LOL Sasun I can't believe you are taking all this feedback - 60 avatars talking at once
Tricia Aferdita: which is probably more why they are doing it than anything
Tia Macbain: ok so the HUB Sasun....how will it work....is it more than the teleport system you supply us with now?
Tricia Aferdita: PR
Lizzo Dreamscape: Nice template for that (making a artist inventory system) is Bones Writers MUSIC sim... you can go to Blues Artists, Classical, individual aritists.....TRAX is the name
Zachh Cale: We need martinis after this for Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL :)
Em Larsson: I hope you are right Tricia
Skylarian Isachenko: We certainly need something, its insane trying to sort work
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I think it would be *awesome* to reach out to some RL art orgs
Doran Forzane: Zach, thats way you save it and read it back
Doran Forzane: lol
sandhya2 Patel: Can art and sculpture go on sl protected land?
Tia Macbain: because a HUB can be something that is barely visible....or extremely visible
Elise Benusconi: lol Here, here! Cheers to Sasun for letting us ask all the tough questions! :-)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm putting that one high on my list of things to discuss :)
Lizzo Dreamscape: Poor Sasun! Glad she doesn't own BP too!!
Zachh Cale: :))
Em Larsson: LOL
Zachh Cale: lmao
Carly Frequency: hell - I wish she DID own BP
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL!
Ghosty Kips: well, to be honest, i wouldnt mind a percentage of my art sales going to help suupport a sim or a series of sims that benefit the community. but the community needs to draw equal or benefit from the sims, and not just the artists that are showcased there.
Elise Benusconi: lol
Tia Macbain: so if the idea is for the LEA to build a gallery then to build a hub....why cant it be to build a HUB THEN to build a gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: yes we are all in agreement that art can and will be for sale on the LEA sims
Carly Frequency: yes Tia
Skylarian Isachenko: LL would be using our work to promote their product so it sonly fair they foot the bills
Sasun Steinbeck: we want to support the arts, and that's going to help a lot of artists
sandhya2 Patel: i was asking if sl protected land could be a way of showing off some sculpture and art in sl
White Hyacinth: I think LEA can be wonderful for the arts in SL -- if it can promote art based on its quality; not the highest bidder; not the loudest mouth
Em Larsson: I agree with Skylarian
Eliza Wierwight: ditto
Tia Macbain: IF this is the LEA and an endowment of current programs...then support the current programs first....wouldnt need more than a 1/4 sim to do that
Sasun Steinbeck: yes right White, and as you can see from the list of committee members, we have some very good people in the group
Tia Macbain: tto have ANOTHER gallery that is HUGE isnt going to help us
Sasun Steinbeck: we will be making judgements based on the merits, not political or whatever
Em Larsson: hard to do, Sasun
Elise Benusconi: You know a tremendous opportunity is currently being wasted in the Linden Homes sims....why not have identified SL art on display...show people what is possible...int he little public squares and neighborhood hubs.
Doran Forzane: yes, its a good group, shame its missing one or 2 though.
Sasun Steinbeck: oooo Elise
Sasun Steinbeck: very interesting
Ghosty Kips: this is true, there's tons, literally tons of linden land that nothing is ever done with. i used to live across from four sims that are, and always have been, empty save for a few trees and a path
Tia Macbain: so if the LEA supports first I can see the validity of that
Elise Benusconi: So all public Linden places. Makes sense...they all need life anyway.
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah land is one thing we have plenty of :) it's the other stuff that may be difficult to get
FreeWee Ling: I have a residential sim whose residents support galleries and a music venue and no one makes a dime off it. It's a serious challenge to meet the basic cost of the thing. If we could be considered a not-for-profit artists community, that could go far to ensure its survival.
Tia Macbain: if it builds a mega gallery...sandbox time for me
Skylarian Isachenko: Yes, exactly, as I had mentioned, It would be great if we could put our art in thos homes as galleries instead of wasted spaces
Sasun Steinbeck: we definitely want to provide some real support to those types of sims FreeWee
quadrapop Lane: as LL build an art collection use it to "decorate" as in public art - at events like sl7b, around the LL entry areas etc
Carly Frequency: yes Free Wee that was my point earlier - to be considered as nonprofits for discounted tiers
Em Larsson: yes, like an art bank
FreeWee Ling: Yes. :)
Tia Macbain: and as far as full sim events....there are sims and sim owners that already do that
sandhya2 Patel: yes like statues in cities
quadrapop Lane: and not just texture on a prin and simple rl sculpture analogs but real SL interactive - showcase the best sl art can be
sandhya2 Patel: they are there for all to enjoy
Zachh Cale: Free, that would at least be something in support of existing galleries!
Tia Macbain: so I wonder if there is a way to support and enhance ...rather than compete
Maggi Mint: getting LL could look at getting grants from RL art organizations, like the Mcnight foundaton, to help fund the arts in SL, that way they could, in turn, help defray costs to SL artist (in the form of land tier) and still not hack away at their own bottom line to do it
Skylarian Isachenko: There needs to be a back up system too so when an artist leaves and their account expires all the texturees fo their art do nto go poof too
Sasun Steinbeck: yes true Tia and we don't want to steal any visitors from the already existing sims
Skylarian Isachenko: which they eventually will
Sasun Steinbeck: oh intersting Maggi, I love that idea
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you
Tia Macbain: I think the Hub Sasun is wonderful idea
Elise Benusconi: ALSO...how about requiring all official Gateway communities to offer public spaces that feature single pieces of art...never enough to threaten real galleries...but introduce the idea to residents...LL could donate the land to the Gateway communities.
Tia Macbain: I am not too keen on the mega gallery...as being a first act for the LEA....juss sayin
Molly Montale: Will Moles be involved in developing infrastucture?
Doran Forzane: Skylarian, provided that is the artists wish, the content owners wish must be respected
Sasun Steinbeck: one of my HUGE interests in this project is the art HUB - how do we educate people on the existing places to go, how can we make it super easy to send them, and fun to use?
Tia Macbain: Then that I can support
Em Larsson: I agree with Tia
Tia Macbain: if that is your first priority
Em Larsson: Same here
Ghosty Kips: i like the mega gallery idea - IF its a tool for promoting us and out own galleries, not as an end to itself. the gallery should be a HUB in and of itself, really
Tia Macbain: yes ghosty
Sasun Steinbeck: good question Molly, I just asked that the other day. I don't know. I'll find out soon since I have a real interest in the architecture of the structures on the sims
Em Larsson: As a use of the Hub, I found it very difficult to find galleries.
Tia Macbain: but its all in the idea of the mission statement
Tia Macbain: is it to have a mega gallery or to have a hub
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Em I agree, really haven't seen a hub that I found really useful
Nima Benoir: I'm with Tia on this as well, the lea shouldn't start out as a competitive thing right off the bat
Tia Macbain: and THAT is the question...whoa hamlet reference
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd really like to make something that WORKs well
Zachh Cale: lol
Carly Frequency: perhaps a sample piece of art that contains a teleporter to the gallery - a whole hub of those would be a very cool intro - and a link TO that hub from every entry-point sim for newcomers
Lizzo Dreamscape: Em.. I think that's a good point.. but I would LOVE to see it expanded and made more comprehensive.
Maggi Mint: any kind of mega display would be tacky and overwhleming: art displays need to be done in "intimate", small scale settings
Tia Macbain: well if you want our support Sasun...particularly mine
Tia Macbain: the focus should be about support
Tia Macbain: not promotion
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea Carly thank you
Em Larsson: I agree Lizzo
Nima Benoir: Why not a focus on education about the art and artist of SL first?
Skylarian Isachenko: Dupilcate the art and the links on a website so you can slurl to the galleris from there
Doran Forzane: thats because those in Linden Labs who build dont know how to build....LOL
Doran Forzane: SO all the hubs looks like crap
Tia Macbain: as ppl trust the idea
Skylarian Isachenko: heck of alot faster to view and link to
Tia Macbain: the gallery or mega gallery could be a viable part
Ghosty Kips: well, if we consider deviding the sims up by type of art, wouldnt it make sense to have each sim / art type have it's own HUB/HUD thing?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Maggi I tend to get overwhelemed when there is just SO much in visible range to absorb, good point
White Hyacinth: LEA might be like the front page of a blog: Small sample of art... [Click here to see the rest of it...]
Zachh Cale: I think the existing destination works amazingly well, would destination still exist for art as well?
quadrapop Lane: the size of the display area depends on the art involved.... come to uwa and see what I deakl with each month... everything from jewellery to mega prim pieces...
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Ghosty maybe that's the best idea... a hub of some kind on every sim?
Tia Macbain: but if it is in direct competition to say what I do for instance....then put on your running shoes....
Tia Macbain: lol
Carly Frequency: right - but the click is a teleport, White Hyacinth
Ghosty Kips: yes, dor the differnt types of art on each sim
Sasun Steinbeck: you mean the Destination Guide, Zachh?
Zachh Cale: yes Sasun :)
Sasun Steinbeck: we do have an art category in there...
Ghosty Kips: a digital hub, a painting hub, a sculpture hub, a music hub etc
Callipygian Christensen: Listeing booths for live musicians of some form would be nice..has that been mentioned?
Zachh Cale: Yes it works amazingly well
Zachh Cale: so many newbies use it
Tia Macbain: BINGO GHosty for the win
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe some type of cool integration with that... but the Guide doesn't try to be comprehensive and list every location known to man...
Ghosty Kips bows
Tia Macbain: maybe with SMALL SAMPLES
Tia Macbain: of artwork
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you Ghosty, good idea :)
Tia Macbain: NOT OMG THIS IS ALL THE ART IN SL
Tia Macbain: right here
sandhya2 Patel: what about art that has interactive components to it
Sasun Steinbeck: hahahahah yes Tia :)
Lizzo Dreamscape: Zachh... I use it to find interesting Artists for my Gallery! You never KNOW what Gem you will find at the next click!!!
sandhya2 Patel: such as walk through sound etc?
Tricia Aferdita: I need to run to another meeting, but thank you for presenting this, Sasun. I look forward to receiving the transcript!
Sasun Steinbeck: I love interactive art :)
quadrapop Lane: and think opf HOPW this is being accessed onm the screen - dont sdee many of you using v2.0 but all the newbies do.... and how do they find their weay around?
Ghosty Kips: right, and each hub promotes the outside galleries in SL, and the artists promote their presense in the hub of their choosing
Nima Benoir: A way to support artists would be to add a catagory of self representing artist on the xstreet marketplace, like they have on ebay
Sasun Steinbeck: oh yes it's 4pm, if anyone needs to go, then thank you for attending and for your feedback! and if you have more - please IM any time!
Tia Macbain: but the minute LL or LEA competes with the ppl that feed its monitary engine....bad idea
Lizzo Dreamscape: YAY SASUN!!! NEXT PRESIDENT OF BP!!
Sasun Steinbeck: I'll be here for a while longer, so keep shouting :)
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL Lizzo :)
Em Larsson: I agree with Tia
Carly Frequency: Ghosty hit on something - if we artists could choose which category we wished to align with - it would not be some committee dictating
Maggi Mint: is there and LEA subscribomatic anywhere, where we could sign up to get inworld updates?
quadrapop Lane: WD sasun :)
Filthy Fluno: omg...what about a website that has slurls to all the galleries!
Elise Benusconi: I do have to run...thank you for all the info, Sasun! And, if anyone wishes to discuss placing their art on my website, please IM me! See you all soon! :-))
quadrapop Lane: lol
Skylarian Isachenko: yes, good diea,
Em Larsson: why they would think there is $$ in art, I have no idea.
Skylarian Isachenko: I mentioned that
Doran Forzane: Sasun, is LEA considering the impacts of irregular sculptured meshies when they are introduced. If your place a lot of art down with those polygons you will lag the sim up big time?
Nima Benoir: I'm with Em and Tia there are so many other ways that LL could support the arts that benefit us all
Sasun Steinbeck: right Carly, I think that is the current thinking too
Sasun Steinbeck: self-categorize
quadrapop Lane: isn't that what sasun's hud used to be?
Tia Macbain: I THINK the LEA needs a clear mission statement
Ghosty Kips: that wold be a great dea, a cental web site, with sections like the hubs inworld, with slurls to different exhibits in each hub/sim
Sasun Steinbeck: good question Doran, I don't know anything about meshes, but I'll bring that up
quadrapop Lane: mesh lag will be local client...
Tia Macbain: I wonder if THAT could be the first order of things
Filthy Fluno: oy vey
Doran Forzane: its one for galleries, its the maths behind how they work
Tia Macbain: so we know that it is a friendly organization and what the intentions are
quadrapop Lane: as with alpha and sculptuies now
Lizzo Dreamscape: Thanks for having me all you cool people! poofing.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Nima and I'd love to hear your ideas, we're not all about just this big art complex
Ghosty Kips: I have to run too folks. plz make this transcript available somewhere?
Skylarian Isachenko: Maximum optimization to reduce any lag to a min.
Carly Frequency: bye Ghosty
Ghosty Kips: bye everyone, Namaste :)
Nima Benoir: Ciao!
Tia Macbain: Mission statements are the best thing to organize a plan...juss sayin
Katerina Burner: bye bye :)
Scotj Criss: bye everyone!! thanks for coming
Sasun Steinbeck: we have published our list of high-level goals, that's nto quite a mission statement, but you can get the feel for what we are all about from that
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Tia I agree
Tia Macbain: nods
Em Larsson: A mission statement at least sets a direction
Tia Macbain: I would think you would Sasun...but the LEA must...or it will feel like a hostile situation ....again...juss sayin
Sasun Steinbeck: I hope we can have our own website soon so we can have things like our mission/goals in one spot :)
Carly Frequency: Sas - thank you for your work on this - I feel like we are heard by the LEA with you there.
quadrapop Lane: ty :))
Molly Montale: This has been super, Sasun. I am curious had you been designated to present this or have you done this out of your own sense for transparency? :)
Doran Forzane: laughs
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Tia we dont' want to appear competitive, that's the last thing we want.
Sasun Steinbeck: I did it myself :)
Molly Montale: ah :)
Nima Benoir: I guess I'm a afraid that in the end it won't be art unless it's endorsed by the LEA the official organization of the arts now in SL
Tia Macbain: okies I takin mah 2 cents back to mah sim....seeya....thanks Sasun!
Sasun Steinbeck: I think you guys have a lot of good feedback
Scotj Criss: Thank you Sasun for a very informative hour
Doran Forzane: Nima, I wouldnt worry about that
Sasun Steinbeck: and I want to represent the gallery owners so that we don't accidentally trample you under while we do all this work :)
Carly Frequency: We don't trample easily
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL
Em Larsson: I really appreciate your taking the trouble Sasun
Eliza Wierwight: Thanks Sasun this is massive undertaking to wrangle , much appreciated
Sasun Steinbeck: my pleasure, thank you
Em Larsson: And all the work you do on our behalf generally
Sasun Steinbeck: I hope we can do more like this!
Zachh Cale: Thanks Sasun! What is the next step, will we hear back from you, will the committee respond to our feedback?
Em Larsson: I wonder if you have a sense of why LL is interested?
Sasun Steinbeck: One thing I should mention is that I will be gone for two months starting in July
Em Larsson: I understand why you are
Maya Paris: Thanks a lot Sasun:)
Em Larsson: and your group
Sasun Steinbeck: so I'll be taking a bit of haitus from... everything for a while :)
Nima Benoir: Thanks Sasun! At least we trust you!
Em Larsson: but LL? What is the source fo their interest?
Eliza Wierwight: an email from LL that my tiers are covered will suffice ~laughs~
Skylarian Isachenko: I believe it is because they are trying to bring in more large organizations
Sasun Steinbeck: but I'll be back and still in the LEA when I return, don't worry
Zachh Cale: YEAH Eliza!! hehe
Skylarian Isachenko: doing with art what they did with education
White Hyacinth: Yay Sasun
Molly Montale: its the Vulcan pan farr
Katerina Burner: thank you everyone for coming today
White Hyacinth claps
Soundsmith Kamachi: thanks for inviting, Sasun, and all the good info
Sasun Steinbeck: Hm you know they've never really said to anyone exactly why they are doing this
Eliza Wierwight: ~beams~ I'm practical !
Soundsmith Kamachi: bye everyone
Sasun Steinbeck: so all we can do is guess at this point :)
Tia Macbain: Em...we may never find out....but one this is....it must suit them to some degree or they wouldnt BE interested
Doran Forzane: 2 months of bliss
Em Larsson: Why does that worry me?
Sasun Steinbeck: bye and thanks for coming, those of you leaving :)
Em Larsson: How long will we miss you Sasuan?
Zachh Cale: wow Sasun! thanks for sharing that with us
Tia Macbain: okies bye
Sasun Steinbeck: 2 months I'll be gone
Skylarian Isachenko: They need the large level input in order to reinvent their coporate image
Sasun Steinbeck: bicycling around Europe :)
Eliza Wierwight: oh wow
Nima Benoir: Oh Wow! That's wonderful!
Carly Frequency: we'll try to hang on that long!
quadrapop Lane: have a great time in rl sasun :)
Molly Montale: wow :)
Skylarian Isachenko: they made a big mistake with the gamer image
Sasun Steinbeck: haha yeah hang in there, jeez. Don't all fall apart while I'm away :)
Molly Montale: post to flickr :)
Em Larsson: gamer image?
Eliza Wierwight: have a blast, what a fantastic adventure
quadrapop Lane: yeah take lotsa pics for us :)
Doran Forzane: Skylarian, its their bread and butter.
Skylarian Isachenko: Have a grand time Sasun, and may it be a fabulous adventure
Em Larsson: Wow... great treip Sasun
Em Larsson: Do you know when you're returning Sasun?
Skylarian Isachenko: Its not a game, and folk are learning that
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks! yes return date is not set but most likely September or late August
Doran Forzane: SL, is a MMO.... gaming is part of it. Its also a collaboration, its what each resident wants it to be
Maggi Mint: id there an inworld place to subcribe for updates on the LEA???????
Skylarian Isachenko: Hundreds of thousads are empty accounts
Em Larsson: ah, OK.. for the summer.. cool!
Sasun Steinbeck: good question Maggi
Doran Forzane: Its more the issue of how the outside world views SL that is the issue
Em Larsson: yes, how can we learn about what is happening?
Sasun Steinbeck: hm... the LL community blog at this point
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe someday the LEA will have our own web page/blog/feed
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm pushing for that!
Skylarian Isachenko: Actually its a platform where you might have games, but its not a game in itself
Em Larsson: You think the issue is imagine not $$ Forzan?
Molly Montale: yaay
FreeWee Ling: Who is Niko Linden. The Overlord of this project?
Sasun Steinbeck: He is the supreme overlord, yes
Eliza Wierwight: oh my
Sasun Steinbeck: :)
Eliza Wierwight: sounds kinky
Sasun Steinbeck: he's our primary contact with LL for this project
Sasun Steinbeck: we have met with other Lindens, including M
Sasun Steinbeck: they pop in at our regular meetings, but Niko is The Man as far as we are concerned
Molly Montale: LEA will not be effected by the recent Linden restructuring?
Em Larsson: I need to get the transcript so I understand the background and context
Maggi Mint: an inworld notification would be handy...I tend to avoid bloated bloggs
Doran Forzane: actually, Skylarian, technically, it is a game. Havok is a game engine. Its just that it has matured into something more. Its only 7 years old in its SDLC. So its not yet determined what it is
FreeWee Ling: Do you know his position at LL?
Em Larsson: I couldn't be on time, so I am lacking backgroud
Doran Forzane: Thats from a programming perspective
Sasun Steinbeck: I'll post a chat log Em, so you'll have all the stuff you missed
Doran Forzane: I dont even think LL understand what SL is
Skylarian Isachenko: Not going to argue with you. The game paradine does not work
quadrapop Lane: LL is aplatyform to play on - what you play is up to you - soem folks play games others [play business... just like internet
Em Larsson: great.. thanks Sasun.. on the Community Blog?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes, where Niko posted the recent update
Skylarian Isachenko: Lots of free accounts, come in, eat resoruces, then the RP sims die due to lack of support
Em Larsson: ah.. did not see it.. url?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes, the Community blog
Zachh Cale: Thanks so much Sasun and everyone! Hugs to alllll
Skylarian Isachenko: end result, net loss
Em Larsson: thank you!
Inovart Tedeschi is Offline
Em Larsson: Bye Zachh
Sasun Steinbeck: the general community blog is http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog
Maggi Mint: an inworld notification would be handy...I tend to avoid bloated bloggs
FreeWee Ling: Well this is all very exciting and scary.. heehee
Sasun Steinbeck: haha you're telling me!
Sasun Steinbeck: We have to do all the work!
Sasun Steinbeck: lol :)
Carly Frequency: thank you Sas --- I am going to head out - thank you Scott for hosting us
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks for coming!
Katerina Burner: take care everyone.. and if you like take a stroll and enjoy the exhibits
Em Larsson: Thanks Q
Ally Aeon: thank's Sasun and bye all
FreeWee Ling: Thank you for spearheading this, Sasun. I couldn;t think of a better representative.
Sasun Steinbeck: Please remember if you have any thoughts... notecard them and send them to me
Skylarian Isachenko: Have a grand day, I have a birthday party to attend to, we try to keep our staff stuffed with cake.
Sasun Steinbeck: well thank you, I hope to do a great job for you guys!
White Hyacinth: Thanks Sasun; bye all
Eliza Wierwight: yes thanks also to the Criss for hosting this communal area for us
FreeWee Ling: You always have.
Sasun Steinbeck: I will do my best not to let down my awesome gallery owners :)
Sasun Steinbeck: so don't worry, you will have a voice
Nima Benoir: You won't, don't worry!
Em Larsson: Thanks very much Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: I've gotten some great ideas, I will comb though the chat log and pluck everything out and make sure the rest of the committee sees it
Sasun Steinbeck: and we can discuss all those ideas too
Nima Benoir: Thanks to Scotj, great meeting!
sandhya2 Patel: thank you
sandhya2 Patel: very good meeting
FreeWee Ling: Thank you all. Gotta get back to SL7B before it turns into a pumpkin...
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you, I hope this helped
Doran Forzane: lol
quadrapop Lane: hugs sasun and TY - you area vove of reason :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I know I don't have a lot of details to share but your feedback will help shape our plans for sure
Maggi Mint: TY for spearheading this Susan
Nima Benoir: oh lol, well he'll get to read my thinks later
quadrapop Lane: voice* even
Sasun Steinbeck: haha yes thanks to Scotj for hosting, I love this seating area
Molly Montale: quest for food. please have a good evening :)
sandhya2 Patel: i clicked on it and crashed
Molly Montale waves
Callipygian Christensen: thanks and good luck Sasun :)
Sasun Steinbeck: hopefully someday the LEA will have our own blog
Sasun Steinbeck: until then, the general community blog there is where to look
sandhya2 Patel: thank you
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks for coming everyone!
Sasun Steinbeck: that was fun
Maggi Mint: TY Susan
quadrapop Lane: wiki - sasun - do a LEA wiki page lol
Nima Benoir: Bye everyone, thanks again Sasun
Tondy Treves: Thank you, Sasun
Dragomir Greenwood: :-)
Eliza Wierwight: right , worky worky time for me , thanks again Sasun and the Criss , wishing everyone well ~Hugs Q ~
Sasun Steinbeck: I wish I wasn't leaving for so long, but oh well. I'm not really worried, the committee has some really smart and experienced artists on it
Sasun Steinbeck: I trust them to carry on while I'm gone :)
quadrapop Lane: I'll keep JJ on track for you :)
barry Richez: ty sasun and bye all
Sasun Steinbeck: hahaha good
barry's translator: ty and bye all Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah JJ has been great, a real good addition
Sasun Steinbeck: bye bye!
Em Larsson: I would feel better with you there, but life goes on, and this sounds like a fab holiday.
Em Larsson: Bye Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: bye bye!
Peoney Feld: bye Sasun thank you very much
quadrapop Lane: he's gained alot of experience ina short time and has the rl management background
Sasun Steinbeck: yes a much needed break :)
Sasun Steinbeck: yes exactly!
Sasun Steinbeck: JJ and I agree on everything, so it's been a real pleasure!
Sasun Steinbeck: I need to put that in the LEA committee selection criteria, "all applicants must agree with Sasun on everything"
Peoney Feld: hahah
Peoney Feld: yes, Sasun...
Peoney Feld: yes
Peoney Feld: lol
quadrapop Lane: lol
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