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Thursday, December 3, 2009

Galleries of SL Kiosk Session at the SLACC

The following is a chat log from a recent session all about the Galleries of SL Kiosk system designed by yours truly. Enjoy and leave comments below please!

I have made some edits to the log below. Anything I added is in [square brackets].

Mar Dwi: Hello everyone, welcome at the SL Art Community Centre
Sasun Steinbeck: Hi Indigo :)
Mar Dwi: we're all gathering here for a lecture and discussion on the galleries of SL kiosk system
Indigo Mertel: Hi Sasun :)
Zotarah Shepherd: Is this in Voice
Mar Dwi: it will be in text chat
Zotarah Shepherd whispers: Thank you
Indigo Mertel: Hi Ali :)
Sasun Steinbeck: That way we can have a record that people can read for many years :)
Alizarin Goldflake: Hi Indigo :)
Cogito Ultsch: are you going to post the chat transcript soewhere in case any of us should crash - not that that is really likely in sl (grin)
Mar Dwi: before we start, I'd like to tell you all about Seba Sideway's plan to perform live in galleries and museums in SL exclusively for the month December.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Cogito! I'll post it on my blog and send out a link
Mar Dwi: Seba has a huge amount of fans in SL and his tour of galleries in SL is a great way to promote our galleries to a larger audience
Mar Dwi: if you're interested, send me or Seba Sideways an IM
Sasun Steinbeck: Seba is awesome, if you haven't seen him perform. Thumbs up from me.
Mar Dwi accepted your inventory offer.
Cogito Ultsch: ty sasun :)
Mar Dwi: Someone else who is doing a great job at promoting art in SL is Sasun. Ammong other things, she is the designer of the galleries of SL kiosk system and tour HUD.
Mar Dwi: I am very happy that she's here today to talk about this system
Sasun Steinbeck smiles
Indigo Mertel: kudos to Sasun
Mar Dwi: so, plelase turn off your mobile phones and IMs and RL and HUDS and whatever
Sasun Steinbeck: haha :)
Mar Dwi: and welcome Sasun
Whisper Fearne: LOL
Juko Tempel: .-'`'-. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE .-'`'-.
Jaime Poutine: turn off RL.. if only
Indigo Mertel: Applause!!!
Sasun Steinbeck: yes please remove those uber laggy scripted attachments :)
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Mar! And for making these talks happen and convincing me to get out of bed to be here :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I will be posting the chat log to this event on my blog and sending a link to the Art Gallery Owner's group
Sasun Steinbeck: I also have a subscriber group if you don't want to use a group slot
Sasun Steinbeck: Mar's gallery kiosk is behind me, you can click on the subscribe now button to join the group
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm going to assume that most of you are familiar with the system, but I want you to feel free to ask any questions about it as we go
Sasun Steinbeck: I'll give you a quick rundown of what it is and how it works
Sasun Steinbeck: The goal of the system is fairly specific - to help art lovers find all the amazing art galleries in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: To do that, I wanted to make a list of galleries that wasn't insanely difficult to maintain - it had to be accurate and up to date
Sasun Steinbeck: as it grew, I kept automating more and more of the system
Sasun Steinbeck: so now it is really not much work on my part day-to-day to keep it running
Sasun Steinbeck: gallery owners configure the !User Settings card inside the kiosk and all that information is fed to my website
Sasun Steinbeck: really most of the code in the system is online, doing all the magic behind the list that you see at http://sasun.info/artgalleriesofsl.aspx
Sasun Steinbeck: Some time ago I implemented the gallery rating system as well as the subscriber system, so now I have the ability to message people just like a subscribe-o-matic system does
Sasun Steinbeck: the gallery rating system is something I'd like to get some feedback on from you guys
Sasun Steinbeck: and I'd love to hear your thoughts on what kinds of things I can do to help achieve this goal of getting art lovers more connected with all the galleries in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: really just having a list of locations is just one part of the puzzle
Sasun Steinbeck: If you haven't seen the list online lately, you should take a look
Sasun Steinbeck: it has a whole new look with the thumbnails of all the textures that the gallery owners stick into their kiosks
Sasun Steinbeck: The tour HUD is another way I'm using to get more people into more gallerires
Sasun Steinbeck: the HUD is connected directly to my online database, so it's always up to date and accurate
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing that the HUD supports that I have actually never done is that I could easily lead some group tours
Sasun Steinbeck: so that may be one idea I'd like to explore in the future is doing some group tours
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe we could take a certain category or art style and make a tour out of it
Sasun Steinbeck: I've been making a lot of improvements to the website, just last night I added a new checkbox above the Filter box there
Indigo Mertel: nice idea
Sasun Steinbeck: the filter box is relatively new too, it let's you quickly find a gallery by name, contact name, or sim name
Sasun Steinbeck: and there is a new "View" dropdown to let you choose between the old view and the new thumbnail view
Sasun Steinbeck: the goal is to make the website as usable as possible for people to encourage them to click those slurls and go!
Indigo Mertel: the new thumbnail view looks great, Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you :)
Sasun Steinbeck: One thing I'd love to get feedback on is the rating system
Juko Tempel: would be nice to have examples next to the Filter box..
Sasun Steinbeck: ah ok for example
Sasun Steinbeck: type in Juko in that box and click Filter
Juko Tempel smiles
Sasun Steinbeck: and you can easily find your gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: or type in Artropolis and you can find all the galleries on that sim
Juko Tempel nods.. not sure everyone would realise what could go in there..
Sasun Steinbeck: If you hover your cursor over that little box it tells you
Sasun Steinbeck: but you are right it's not immediately obvious
Juko Tempel: so it does :-0
Juko Tempel: so more descriptive keywords are a possibility in future?
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm always looking for ways to improve everything - I'm no professional website designer! :)
Sasun Steinbeck: hm that's possible, yes
Cogito Ultsch: you've done a LOT of work on this - i'm very impresses, Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm not sure what else to search other than gallery name, contact name, and sim name...
Second Renoir: yes me to
Alizarin Goldflake: type of art maybe?
Juko Tempel: art genre?
Cogito Ultsch: so - the style?
Second Renoir: yes
Cogito Ultsch: lol
Cogito Ultsch: yes
Sasun Steinbeck: I am using it as a fun way to learn asp.net and C# programming and I have learned a lot, let me tell you
Indigo Mertel: Sasun did a great job, on the level of a pro developer... I can attest that
Juko Tempel: we would have to supply them in the User Settings?
Sasun Steinbeck: this stuff is not easy lol
Second Renoir: for instance if you look for installations
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea Alizarin, but that's right, that info just isn't available
Sasun Steinbeck: I am really trying to make the kiosk config as simple as possible
Juko Tempel nods
Cogito Ultsch: featured artists maybe?
Juko Tempel: so why are the ratings useful Sasun? are they being gamed?
Mar Dwi: oh that would be so cool, featured artists on the website
Sasun Steinbeck: so adding a new setting for people to configure is something I want to avoid unless there's a really good reason
Sasun Steinbeck: hm interesting idea, if you notice, I have my very first ad banner at the top
Sasun Steinbeck: for Second Nights
Sasun Steinbeck: I could use that space to feature an artist, that's possible
Sasun Steinbeck: make it a rotating ad banner
Sasun Steinbeck: yes let's talk about the ratings for a bit
Sasun Steinbeck: So the goal of the ratings is pretty specific
Sasun Steinbeck: it's nothing more than a popular vote
Sasun Steinbeck: think amazon.com for those of you in the USA
Sasun Steinbeck: you can look up any book and rate it by clicking the gold stars
Sasun Steinbeck: but that's not the same thing as a critical review
Sasun Steinbeck: The ratings does not pretend to be anything like that, and really that's one gap I have not filled
Juko Tempel: comments are the next step..
Sasun Steinbeck: we've got the popular vote, though we need *more* of those, but I don't really have any peer review or critical review
Sasun Steinbeck: oh yes the comments too, I've made those much more visible on the new default view
Juko Tempel nods
Sasun Steinbeck: So just like your amazon.com reviews, those are very helpful too
Sasun Steinbeck: depending on the quality of the comments lol
Indigo Mertel: Sasun, it would be nice if we could add posters to promote the galleries rather than art only as it is now
Sasun Steinbeck: tell me what you mean?
Indigo Mertel: right now you have cycling posters on the kiosks
Sasun Steinbeck: oh yes
Sasun Steinbeck: I get it
Indigo Mertel: only art is displayed
Indigo Mertel: it would be nice if we could have a poster promoting the gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: so right now, if an artist wants to show their art ON the kiosk, they need to supply me with a 512x512 texture, and I drop it into the kiosk server
Sasun Steinbeck: so that puts it on rotation to be shown on the kiosk display
Indigo Mertel: nods
Sasun Steinbeck: the problem I am worried about with doing advertising is that I'm afraid that gallery owners might not want an ad for another gallery in front of their gallerly
Alizarin Goldflake: so Indigo could give you a pic of her gallery instead?
Juko Tempel nods
Cogito Ultsch: good point
Indigo Mertel: nods
Juko Tempel: i agree
Alizarin Goldflake: mmm
Sasun Steinbeck: the original goal was to make the kiosks attractive and beautiful
Second Renoir: me to
Sasun Steinbeck: so I really just want art to display on there
lala Lightfoot: true, but I often put other gallery's posters near my gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm afraid that ads are just not as pleasing to the eye as a beautiful piece of art by a real SL artist
Sasun Steinbeck: yes true lala
Sisi Biedermann: where do you get the art to put on the posters?
Second Renoir: right
Sasun Steinbeck: I want people to go over to the kiosk and click it
Mar Dwi: I wouldn't mind displaying posters of other galleries on the kiosk. But I would want to be able to controll which galleries are promoted here
Sasun Steinbeck: you have to submit a 512x512 texture to me, full perm
Sasun Steinbeck: you can click your kiosk and click Help to get full details
Indigo Mertel: we would expect art galleries to make artistic promotional posters ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: there are some requirements you should read about on the Help card for that texture
Sasun Steinbeck: haha yes Indigo
Alizarin Goldflake: Sasun, am I right that only one kiosk can be rezzed on a gallery's land?
Sasun Steinbeck: yay click click
Sasun Steinbeck: yes the limitation is one kiosk per person, per parcel
Alizarin Goldflake: i have 6 locations and never know where to put the kiosk
[Sasun Steinbeck: the reason is that kiosks are stored in the database by object key. When you pick up a kiosk and re-rez it, it gets a new key, and therefore registers itself as a new kiosk in the database, so you'll now have two kiosks in the database but only one really exists. My system will automatically merge two separate kiosks database entries on the same parcel, on the assumption that one is replacing the other, which means less work for me cleaning up all these "missing" kiosks that have a database entry but no actual kiosk.]
Mary Wickentower: so if you have art in more than one loaction, you can only join for one of those locations?
Alizarin Goldflake: i put it where i THINK gets the most traffic
Sasun Steinbeck: no it's per parcel, per avatar
Sisi Biedermann: I have 3 locations and one kiosk on each one
Sasun Steinbeck: so if you have two people with two kiosks on one parcel, no problem
lala Lightfoot: same here
EdwardIV Beaumont: Susan....about the rating system....has it been getting a sufficent response ....Do vistors take the time to rate a gallery.....does your stats show you it is worth your effort or is it still early days yet....like your group tour idea ....
lala Lightfoot: I have 3 kiosks
lala Lightfoot: (I think :)
Sasun Steinbeck: if you have one kiosk of yours on one parcel and another on another parcel, no problem
Sasun Steinbeck: and if someone needs to have multiple kiosks on one parcel, I can give you one that will work just fine
Alizarin Goldflake: i always forget to rate places, including forgetting to ask people to rate me
Sasun Steinbeck: that is a good point
Sasun Steinbeck: EdwardIV/ Alizarin, I have been thinking about that
Zotarah Shepherd: How do we get a Kiosk?
Sasun Steinbeck: really for the rating system to be useful, we need to have a critical mass of ratings
Sasun Steinbeck: I can give you one or you can look in my picks for a location to go pick one up
Sasun Steinbeck: and for 1L on XstreetSL :)
Alizarin Goldflake: perhaps we should organize a rate-this-gallery tour ? :))
Mary Wickentower: I have art on my own parcel and in shops on other pples parcels, can I put a kiosk in each place, even tho they will be in my name?
Indigo Mertel: hehe :)
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks
Zotarah Shepherd accepted your inventory offer.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes you sure can
Sasun Steinbeck: since they are separate parcels, no problem
Sasun Steinbeck: as long as you can rez things on their parcel :)
Sasun Steinbeck: the problem I've noticed is that the kiosks are usually placed near the gallery entrance
Sasun Steinbeck: which makes sense because the published URL for that gallery is 2m in front of the kiosk
Sasun Steinbeck: unless you have a fixed landing point
Sasun Steinbeck: so... people come in, they work their way to the rear of the gallery, and leave
Sasun Steinbeck: they don't go back and rate
Sasun Steinbeck: so I've created a super simple remote rating station
Lacosadivina Quintessa: good idea
Sisi Biedermann: :o)
Indigo Mertel snatches one
Stephanie Helstein: :)
Mar Dwi: if you want to rate the SLACC, yo ucan use the other rating station
Sasun Steinbeck: what you can do is set this up anywhere on the SAME parcel that your kiosk is on
Sasun Steinbeck: you can actually rate the SLACC right now with this :)
Juko Tempel: Sasun.. i'm still not sure why the ratings are worth doing?
Mar Dwi: I hope you're not all rating me 1 star
Alizarin Goldflake: how about making a vendor for it?
Sasun Steinbeck: hahaha Mar :)
Sasun Steinbeck: so the concepet here is that you can put these anywhere
Sasun Steinbeck: it's full perm
Alizarin Goldflake: can we put out more than one per parcel?
Sasun Steinbeck: you may edit it, unlink it, delete all the prims except for the one with the stars on it if you want
Sasun Steinbeck: so you can strip it down to 1 prim
Sasun Steinbeck: yes as many as you want
Alizarin Goldflake: woot!!
Sasun Steinbeck: so put one near every "exit" in your gallery
Alizarin Goldflake: that will help Sasun
Indigo Mertel: nice design
Alizarin Goldflake: it will remind people to vote
Sasun Steinbeck: I hope this helps, yes!
Alizarin Goldflake: including me :))
Second Renoir: ok but what good is it
Sasun Steinbeck: One of the best ways to get more traffic from my website, and the tour HUD, is to get yourself as high as possible on the list
Sasun Steinbeck: The FIRST thing you should do is rate your own gallery 5 stars!
Second Renoir: ahh always compitition
Alizarin Goldflake: how do non-artists find out about your web site?
Indigo Mertel: of course :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm surprised how many gallery owners don't rate themselves [yes it is in the instructions to do that], even with quite a few reminders I send to owners that have kiosks with no ratings :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I have made a few other changes that I'd like your thoughts on
Sasun Steinbeck: one, the rating sorting order
Alizarin Goldflake: sasun, how do non-artists find out about your web site?
Sasun Steinbeck: I think the primary way is via links from other blogs, and also on the top of all the kiosks is a link directly to the website
Sasun Steinbeck: the primary sort is by the average rating
Sasun Steinbeck: so everyone with a perfect 5.0 bubbles to the top
Tour Spoonhammer: this is a ratingsystem, that About this ratingsystem..what will it tell?
Tour Spoonhammer: couldn't it be missused?
Sasun Steinbeck: the secondary sort has changed recently
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I'll address that
Alizarin Goldflake: how does one put a link to your web site on her blog?
Sasun Steinbeck: the secondary sort is now by NUMBER of votes
Alizarin Goldflake: yes that is a good idea
Indigo Mertel: indeed
Sasun Steinbeck: so the galleries that have the same exact rating as someone else, if you have more votes, you get bumped to the top
Sasun Steinbeck: now realistically this only makes a difference for the big batch of galleries that have a perfect 5.0
Sasun Steinbeck: and there are a lot of them
Sasun Steinbeck: since many of them have only 1 or 2 votes
Luka Dayafter: Can owners of this kiosk's vote for its gallery? And is it limited voting (maybe like 1 vote per day with 1 account?)
Sisi Biedermann: Can I place more that one rater in a gallery?
Sasun Steinbeck: Alizarin, it depends on the blog, I don't have a simple answer, but every blog system around let's you link to other blogs pretty easily or to websites like the gallery list
Sasun Steinbeck: yes you can Sisi
Sisi Biedermann: great
Sasun Steinbeck: so let me address abuse
Sasun Steinbeck: one avatar is only allowed one rating to be given at each gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: you can click the stars as many times as you like, but only your last vote is saved [one avatar is allowed ONE vote, which you can update, per gallery]
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to have a kiosk at my educational site with Galleries listed by the type of art. Is it possible to have one like that? For now I am just making a Notecard with LMs.
Sasun Steinbeck: this stops abuse by people clicking a thousand times
Second Renoir: but people does they care they just looking around eventually bying some art for their homes
Luka Dayafter: indeed this is good :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Zotarah, I have a special version of the kiosk called the "infohub"
Sasun Steinbeck: it doesn't require any configuration at all, and doesn't add the location to the list - it just gives out the list
Tour Spoonhammer: but nothing stops me to ask any one..even pay them to use the ratesystem..even if they don't even look into the galleryt?
Sasun Steinbeck: so someone can just ask me for the infohub style and I'd be glad to supply it
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Tour there is potential for abuse like that
Stephanie Helstein: tour, nobody can read the mind of the person voting to see what their motivation is
Sasun Steinbeck: It's hard to tell ilf people are "cheating" the system, the most common thing I notice is alt voting. but then again, that may account for just one or two extra votes
Mary Wickentower: people can add comments in the rating system but not directly on the blog, correct?
[Yes mary, you cannot rate or add comments on the website, it must be done in-world]
Juko Tempel: so some people do like the ratings system? you think it is useful?
Tour Spoonhammer: I know that.. I just se a risk that you cam abuse the system..and then what is the rating good for
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like my students to have that and people who come to the Art part of my sim. The more people understand art the more likely they are to buy it in SL and in RL.
Cogito Ultsch: lol - how do you know whether someone is voting with alts?
[Sometimes it can be very obvious, they have the same first or last name as the gallery owner :) But I just can't make any assumptions and do not delete votes for that reason]
Sasun Steinbeck: I noticed one gallery owner covered up stars 1-4 so you could ONLY click star 5!!
Alizarin Goldflake: hahahaha!
Stephanie Helstein: lol
Doran Forzane: lol
Sasun Steinbeck: all of those ratings were deleted when I found out :)
Sisi Biedermann: good idea - haha
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah that was NOT good lol
Cogito Ultsch: lol
Indigo Mertel: gee...
Sisi Biedermann: lol
Zotarah Shepherd: Is there an Art Publication that gives Critical Reviews in SL?
Sasun Steinbeck: Zotarah great question
Zotarah Shepherd: There should be I think.
Sasun Steinbeck: Art Market was trying to tackle that problem
Alizarin Goldflake: the Artmarket report used to
Sasun Steinbeck: he was publishing a magazine that was filling that gap
Sasun Steinbeck: but sadly it's really still a big hole that I see
Alizarin Goldflake: but nothing new on it lately
Sasun Steinbeck: I got some great feedback from someone that did not like the ratings system
Sasun Steinbeck: good question on whether people like it, I have not really done any kind of survey to find out what gallery visitors think of it
Sasun Steinbeck: the negative feedback I got was related to what I mentioned earlier about this being strictly a popular vote [and not fulfilling the need for critical/peer review]
Tour Spoonhammer: I will not say I don't like the rating and hope that mostly it will be just fine
Sasun Steinbeck: I think there is still a big need for critical review
Sasun Steinbeck: one idea came up that I'm mulling over [suggested by DanCoyote Antonelli]
Mar Dwi: The problem I have with the way the galleries are listed by rating is that a gallery with 1 or 2 five star votes, is listed above a gallery with 20 votes of an average of 4.5 votes
Sasun Steinbeck: yes exactly Mar!
Sasun Steinbeck: and I've been pondering that
Sasun Steinbeck: the idea that came up is interesting - tell me what you think - what if we had a small, specialist team of peer reviewers, going around writing short but good critical peer reviews
Mary Wickentower: if you unlink the rater and relink it to make it smaller, do you damage any scripts or have to make any specific prim the prime prim?
[Yes, you can unlink the special rating kiosk, you really only need the one prim with the stars on it]
Luka Dayafter: there is also a problem... for example I go to every gallery and put 1 point for them to list my gallery on rank of galleries
Sasun Steinbeck: and I could tag them as "trusted" reviewers in my system
Sasun Steinbeck: perhaps make their reviews show up in a different color to really highlight them
Alizarin Goldflake: wow i think that is a good idea!
Juko Tempel nods.. i think that would be more useful than ratings..
Doran Forzane: Sas, that would work. The only comment I would say is that if a gallery owner is a reviewer they cannot review galleries they either own or are associated with
Sasun Steinbeck: that might fulfill that need for something other than a purely popular vote
Xe Namiboo: I think it's a great idea!
Indigo Mertel: like amazon.com
Sasun Steinbeck: exactly
Sasun Steinbeck: they are highlighted as special reviews on amazon
Sasun Steinbeck: I like that idea a lot
Alizarin Goldflake: i could suggest some names
Second Renoir: nice
Sasun Steinbeck: yes definitely, there are some great prospects
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe instead of a small group of roving reviewers, there can be some kind of selection criteria/committee for a "trusted reviewer" status
Mar Dwi: what qualifications should a trusted reviewer have?
Sasun Steinbeck: great question!
Indigo Mertel: erm...
Sisi Biedermann: wow
Second Renoir: Mar could be one
Juko Tempel: or flaming..
Sasun Steinbeck: Luka good point
Sasun Steinbeck: someone *could* be lame and just go around rating everyone 1 star
Luka Dayafter: indeed
Sasun Steinbeck: what I do is once in a while browse through all the ratings
Sasun Steinbeck: looking for crap, or garbage ratings
Sasun Steinbeck: and if someone is doing that, I hope to spot them
[I have recently looked at the average number of stars by all the reviewers, and there are no cases of "1 star" griefing that I could see.]
Sasun Steinbeck: I would delete anything that I can determine to be some kind of abuse like that
Sasun Steinbeck: such as the gallery owner hiding stars 1-4, that's how I spotted that
Sasun Steinbeck: the real problem is that everyone rates galleries 5 stars!
Mary Wickentower: do you have any recourse to remove a rating if you suspect it is another avenue for a griefer?
Sasun Steinbeck: we have a disproportionate number of galleries with all 5 star ratings
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I do Mary
Sasun Steinbeck: and if you suspect something bad is going on please let me know
Sasun Steinbeck: griefing is a possibility
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I really hope is that once you have a higher number of votes, the occasional bad rating won't make that much of a difference [in the average]
Sasun Steinbeck: not everyone will love your art
Mary Wickentower: I have to close my art group because of griefer attack in the group
Mary Wickentower: *had
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah griefers will always exist
Zotarah Shepherd: The ratings system could be a popularity contest rather than a guide to the best art galleries.
Sasun Steinbeck: so far I have not found many cases of outright abuse at all
Sasun Steinbeck: it is ONLY a popularity contest
Sasun Steinbeck: which is why we need to fill that gap with some alternate information like critical reviews
Sasun Steinbeck: it is not really the *best* guide to the best art, I readily admit
Sasun Steinbeck: it is just which ones are most popular by the visitors
Luka Dayafter: My personal opinion is that you Sasun as creator of this amazing group choose group of people who will value galleries on ranking scale than mix those votes with public opinion
Sasun Steinbeck: and I realized it wouldn't be anything more than that when it was created, and it's still growing, so we need to address those gaps in the future
Doran Forzane: Sasun, I can chat with Unberto to see if BOSL would be happy to facilitate a critical review as part of their magazine
Luka Dayafter: so half experties half public
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you Sasun this is very interesting. I have another meeting. Please everyone feel free to IM me about my educational Art Grotto on Ralanora.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Luka I'm definitely considering something like that
Zotarah Shepherd waves
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Zotarah
Sasun Steinbeck: woops yes it is 2pm already so if you need to scoot to another event, feel free and thanks for coming :)
Sasun Steinbeck: before anyone goes
Alizarin Goldflake: thank YOU sasun!
Sasun Steinbeck: I don't think the one I rezzed was collecting votes for Mar's gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: let's try Mar's
Sasun Steinbeck: this is a test version of the remote voter, remember :)
Sasun Steinbeck: sorry I didn't mention that!
Second Renoir: lol
Sasun Steinbeck: the good news is that it will automatically update you if I make any changes
Sasun Steinbeck: "you" being the owner of the remote voting station
Sasun Steinbeck: ok give it a go, rate the SLACC :)
Juko Tempel: it's 'remote' in the sense of.. elsewhere in the Gallery? not at the front?
Cogito Ultsch: and the location for the main board [Galleries of SL Kiosk] is in your picks?
[Yes correct you can also click the web icon on any gallery kiosk to go to my HQ to pick up a kiosk, or check my picks]
Sasun Steinbeck: note that votes are always private, no one will see what you clicked :)
Doran Forzane: haha... mmm 5 prims..... lol Sasun, thats going to cost me 5x* at Angel
Juko Tempel: no you can strip it Doran [remove all the prims except the main one]
Sasun Steinbeck: remote as in, it must be on the same parcel as a ratings-enabled regular kiosk [but doesn't need to be near the regular kiosk]
Mar Dwi: thank you all
Juko Tempel: but can be inside for visitors after they've seen the art, right?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes absolutely
Sasun Steinbeck: anywhere you want
Mary Wickentower: is there a rater at xstreet too?
Alizarin Goldflake: thank you Sasun!
Sasun Steinbeck: Mary, no, this is a beta version
Sasun Steinbeck: you are the only people that have one now
Sasun Steinbeck: but I will put it up there eventually
Sasun Steinbeck: I may have missed your question, if I didn't answer it, please re-ask
Sasun Steinbeck: sure!
Cogito Ultsch: tyvm :)
Sasun Steinbeck: the kiosk requester will always give you the latest version of the kiosk
SpaceIO Core: ty, Sasun :-)
Sasun Steinbeck: so that's about it! I'll hang out for more questions
Sasun Steinbeck: get those rating stations out there and get more ratings, that's the best way to stay up in a good spot on the list
Mary Wickentower: is the kiosk requester the kiosk?
Sisse Singh: Thank you Sasun, goodbye all
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Mary that's it
Zena Zemlja: Sasun, I know I am late, sorry could not make it earlier, but I do have a questions and suggestion about the ratings
Indigo Mertel: great work... you know I am a fan of your kiosk system :)
Juko Tempel: thanks Sasun.. great work on the kiosks.. and critical reviews is a good development i think..
Sasun Steinbeck: sure Zena please
EdwardIV Beaumont: interesting meeting....thanks Sasun.....will drop you a notecard with feedback soon....bye all...
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Juko :)
Sasun Steinbeck: oh yes would love your thoughts
Sasun Steinbeck: write them down, send them to me later
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I didn't mention was a brand new checkbox on the website
Tour Spoonhammer: I have a quetion about this group tours..can anyone manage them...put them together?
Sasun Steinbeck: [the checbox is named] "Needs Review"
Sasun Steinbeck: that shows just the galleries that have 0 or 1 ratings
[that way people interested in helping with the ratings have a great list of galleries that really need ratings]
Sasun Steinbeck: Tour I would love to help you with that
Sasun Steinbeck: yes you could lead a tour of galleries and I have some tools to help you
Sasun Steinbeck: I actually sell a standalone tour HUD
Tour Spoonhammer: okay thanks
Sasun Steinbeck: for custom tours
Juko Tempel: art excursions :-)
Sasun Steinbeck: but if you want to drive a gallery tour/art excursion, let's talk later :)
Mary Wickentower: maybe all we members could all take turns leading a tour once a month, like a coopertive effort
Zena Zemlja: right now there are galleries listed on the website with just one vote of 5 stars on op of list, above those who have 10 or 20 votes of most 5 stars too and maybe 1 or 2 of lesser stars, there is even one gallery with about 250 votes, alsmost all of them 5 stars, maybe just a few lowerd, and it is listed on page 50, this does not seem fair to me
Second Renoir: we could all do a special christmas tour
Second Renoir: with gifts
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Zena, I've been thinking about that a lot
Indigo Mertel: I have to go.... Mar, thank you for hosting this meeting. Thank you for the very informative session, Sasun.
Indigo Mertel: bye!
Mary Wickentower: maybe all we members could all take turns leading a tour once a month, like a coopertive effort
Mar Dwi: thanks for coming Indigo, have a nice day!
Second Renoir: every gallery give something
Sasun Steinbeck: Mar mentioned that earlier, galleries with one 5.0 rating are above galleries with 100 ratings with an average of 4.99 :)
Zena Zemlja: what I would suggest is to rank the galleries in order of who has most points, not average, but counting them, like 5 votes of 4 stars would be 20 points, etc, that woudl be much more fair I think
Cogito Ultsch: ty for the great meeting
Xe Namiboo: I'd be willing to do that
Cogito Ultsch: this was fantastic information :)
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Cogito!
Luka Dayafter: alright, thanks!
Sasun Steinbeck: Zena I am strongly considering something like that
Luka Dayafter: Yes I will have to do that, thanks :)
Mary Wickentower: just a comment on the "filter" button, it might be less confusing if it was called a "search" button
[This has been changed as suggested]
Sasun Steinbeck: hmmm I like that idea
Mar Dwi: yes. I think Zena's idea is better than my idea of multiplying rates with number of ratings
Zena Zemlja: I hope so, Sasun, it will sure encourage us all to have our customers asked for more votes
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Mar, something need to be done
Sasun Steinbeck: I need to put some more thought into that
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I should mention
Luka Dayafter: I must go now. Thank you Susan for invitation and thanks for informations. Good job!
Luka Dayafter: Bye everyone!
Sasun Steinbeck: is that the kiosks are integrated with the metaLIFE travel database
Mar Dwi: Bye Luka
Hermit Barber: If you want to change the rating scheme, then assuming that ratings are from 1-5, then assigning galleries as e^(ln(Number of Votes per Rating)*2*(Rating-3)/(5-1)) should establish a significance (number of votes * Rating) factor that would be fair.
Sasun Steinbeck: so anyone that clicks a rating star on my kiosk is automatically forwarded to the metaLIFE database
Sasun Steinbeck: so that means all the galleries are also in the metaLIFE travel database, which is awesome
Sasun Steinbeck: we flooded them with galleries lol
Hermit Barber: The downside is that that would need to be done for each vote for each gallery as new votes are received.
Second Renoir: lol
Doran Forzane: Can your kiosks be linked Sasun to ones metaLIFE account then
Sasun Steinbeck: oh Hermit thank you very much
Sasun Steinbeck: that's exactly what I need to work out, the right forumula
Stephanie Helstein: i have one
Sasun Steinbeck: no, Doran, they can't, it just forwards the parcel ratings
Doran Forzane: k
Zena Zemlja: my Igor gallery was on top long time, all 5 stars, now one lesser vote has downed it to page 28, below about hundreds of galleries with just one vote of 5 stars, which is just silly
Sasun Steinbeck: yes it isn't good the way it works right now
Second Renoir: thanks sasun and mar and all
Tour Spoonhammer: one option would be to reset all ratings every month or every third month..to keep the rating up to date
Sasun Steinbeck: but rest assured I'm going to fix it
Sasun Steinbeck: hm interesting idea
Zena Zemlja: thanks, Sasun
Hermit Barber: Tour: If doing that it would be better to establish a moving average with more significance given to newer votes.
Tour Spoonhammer: Thanks all or aninformative hour
Stephanie Helstein: i think you should explore using a bayesian rating system
Sasun Steinbeck: yes that's an interesting suggestion
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm taking all this down, don't worry :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I will Stephanie, thank you
Hermit Barber: The formula I provided is Bayensian :-P
Sasun Steinbeck: oh good!
Stephanie Helstein: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I will do some research :)
[I have since implemented a Bayesian rating system and it is "live". The net result is that galleries with a low number of ratings are "pulled" toward the average rating, so they are no longer clogging the upper ranks of the list with single-star ratings]
Skylarian Isachenko: Will there be a log of the event, I hope?
Mary Wickentower: this info meeting is a great idea, I've learned more here than anywhere else about the kiosks, plus it makes the effort that you are putting together seem more like a community now, then an abstact list...hosting these meeting on occasion might be a good way to continue pulling this togehter as a communiyt
Sasun Steinbeck: so hopefully as this system continues to grow, I will make tweaks like this to make it better
Sasun Steinbeck: and if you have any other suggestions please let me know
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea Mary
SpaceIO Core: very nice to see you all.
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you :)
Stephanie Helstein: ty!
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks so much for coming everyone!
Xe Namiboo: ty!
Skylarian Isachenko: And I hope you had a grand thanks giving or appropriate holiday.
SpaceIO Core: thanks for great conversation, Sasun, and mar
Zena Zemlja: thank you Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: haha and if you sent me an IM I'll get to you shortly :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I sure did thanks Sky :)
Mar Dwi: Thank you Sasun, it's been very informative and thank everyone for your input
Skylarian Isachenko: See you again I am sure.
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks again!
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Mar for this opportunity :)
Mary Wickentower: TY Susan and MAr
Sasun Steinbeck: awesome, we didn't get bombed with lag
Mar Dwi: yes, oh that reminds me....
Stephanie Helstein: take care, all
Doran Forzane: no even with the sim Time dilation
Mar Dwi: there's a lot of land for sale on this region. The sim owners are very nice and professional and the land isn't expensive. If you're looking for land, I like to have artistic neighbours
Sasun Steinbeck: :)
Mar Dwi: and as you can see. we don't have a lot of lag
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah the sim held up great
Zena Zemlja: ok, I get a call, need to go, be well everyone
Zena Zemlja waves and poofs
Sasun Steinbeck: byeeee
Sasun Steinbeck: that was fun! Thanks again Mar
Doran Forzane: Reason mar your lag is down, is because there is empty parcels. Also you dont allow scritps to run on this parcel which means all that exspensive lag inducing Agent costs reduce
Mar Dwi: Yeah, that does make a diference Doran

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