The following is a transcript of a discussion led by myself and Tommy Parrott on "How to Build and Manage an Art Gallery in Second Life". I had a great time and thanks to Glasz DeCuir for the invitation to speak!
Strider Messmer: Welcome to everyone who just arrived
Strider Messmer: I WILL USE CAPS TO HELP IN THE ADMIN NOTICES
Cogito Ultsch: hi :)
Sasun Steinbeck: hi Cogito :)
Strider Messmer: WELCOME EVERYONE TO CANAL PLACE
Strider Messmer: PLEASE BE SEATED
Gracie Kendal: Hi Mari L:)
Strider Messmer: IF YOU WISH I WILL BE USING VOICE AND TYPE CHAT BOTH
Skylarian Isachenko: You are going to be needing more seating
Strider Messmer: I WILL REZZ MORE IN A MOMENT
Gracie Kendal: Heya Apollo :)
Indigo Mertel: Hi
Mariposa Upshaw: hiya ms. gracie :)
JackC Citron: Hi =)
Strider Messmer: OUR FIRST PRESENTER IS THE OWNER OF, PERHAPS, THE LARGEST GALLERY IN SL.
Gracie Kendal: Hi there :)
Sasun Steinbeck claps
Strider Messmer: I MET HIM SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND HAVE BENEFITED FROM HIS ADVICE AND SOME OF HIS PERSONAL CREATIONS.
Indigo Mertel: Applause!!!
Strider Messmer: PLEASE JOIN WITH ME IN WELCOMING TOMMY PARROT!
Tommy Parrott: Thank you for having me ;)
Mars Lake: ? Applause ? Applause ? Applause ?
Indigo Mertel: Applause!!!
Apollo Reinard: welcome Tommy
Tommy Parrott: Thank you all for coming; and hopefully; this will help anyone that needs the guidance ;)
Ernst Maven: hey
Sasun Steinbeck: Welcome everyone!
Davideo Zelnik: hey :)
Skylarian Isachenko: Always open to learning more skills in the arts. and making a living is certain a skill.
Tommy Parrott: I see a lot of new blood here, as well as many seasoned veterans ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd like to put in a plug for my group as we get things rolling here. I want people to know that help with this topic is available from quite a few sources - your fellow gallery owners are always willing to help, and asking questions of this sort are exactly what the Art Gallery Owner's group is for, so please join and ask about how to build and manage your gallery :)
Tommy Parrott: That is a great group for art related information; one cant live without for reaching the masses art wise: )
Sasun Steinbeck: yes the power of SL is community and that means getting out and meeting some fellow gallery owners, and attending things like this where we can all share and help each other be successful
Sasun Steinbeck: so don't be an art recluse too often lol :)
Tommy Parrott: Ok ;) You have come by to get some more understanding of building & maintainging an art gallery ;) There are several factors involved in the process of constructing a gallery ;) A successful gallery comes from lots of hard work, and dedication to the facility ;)
Tommy Parrott: Butilding a gallery can be a tricky task, as when building a gallery, I tend to try to make it very bland, yet appealing at the same time, as to not take way from the art you are displaying ;)
Tommy Parrott: After all; that is what they have come to your gallery for;) The art (well, sometimes the arch. also ;)
Tommy Parrott: So, I suggest keeping yout gallery enclosure to the minimum to keep it looking acceptable ;) If too lavish, people tend to leave quickly, as they are distracted by the gallery itself ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes that's a good point, if you're not a wiz builder you might consider hiring someone to build something unique for you, part of the attraction of any gallery is the building itself!
Tommy Parrott: :)
Skylarian Isachenko: Indeed so, many of the ones I visit for the first time, I do because of the build
Sasun Steinbeck: hehe yes you can go *too* far of course
Skylarian Isachenko: grins
Skylarian Isachenko: Zero Point?
Skylarian Isachenko: though its gorgeous as a work in its own right
Tommy Parrott: Indeed!:) Arch. can make or break a build for sure:) I have seen many galleries that are simply, and very effective; on the other hand, have seen many that are very busy, and confusing :)
Tommy Parrott: If you make it a pleasant environment for them, they will stay and enjoy the surroundings;) So, plan your builds accordingly to your theme, and remember the K.I.S.S rule, as it works well ;)
synergistic Merryman: Kiss rule?
Mariposa Upshaw: keepitsimple
Tommy Parrott: Keep it Simple Stupid ;)
Apollo Reinard: keep it simple. (dummy)
Mariposa Upshaw waves to apollo
Tommy Parrott: (NO OFFENSE to anyone! ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd like to chime in about one pet peeve of mine related to the buildings
Tommy Parrott: lol
Seoreh Voight: lol
Apollo Reinard: hey Mari :)
Sasun Steinbeck: please make sure it's not too cramped inside - that tends to make alt-zoomingn with your camera an extremely frustrating exercise
Sasun Steinbeck: when your camera is bouncing all over and going behind walls as you navigate a cramped gallery - ugh that drives me nuts
Tommy Parrott: Yes; Sasun, you are correct;) Many are too low;)
Davideo Zelnik: low?
Tommy Parrott: I always build mine at a MIN. of 5 meters; as 15 feet for a ceiling is a good minimum ;)
synergistic Merryman: The thing is - keep the art at a nice viewable level
Tommy Parrott: Open space in your design will assure that can happen ;) A well plannned build can do wonders ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: Good point if it's above the default camera level on a huge wall people will miss it
Eli Tauber: I'm trying to not use walls at all, any ideas on that?
synergistic Merryman: Hanging partitions can work well if well designed
Tommy Parrott: That can be quite appealing ;) I did an outdoor venure similar to that:) If creatively placed, why not:) The nice thing about SL is there are no physical boundaries to limit your imagination ;)
Eli Tauber: sort of been messing with using a .50 dia glass tube for that
Elese Faulkes: hanging partitions that are made of perspex maybe, with the back of your paintings/photos made transparent works great
Elise Benusconi: Perspex?
Eli Tauber: plexiglas
Skylarian Isachenko: glass
Skylarian Isachenko: only plastic
Elese Faulkes: its strong plastic..type stuff..lol
Van Caerndow: I like walls....tall walls
Elese Faulkes: I dislike tall walls..lol
Skylarian Isachenko: Remember of course your trying to sell art, so look at things from your clients perspective
Tommy Parrott: That is the great thing about SL; any style can be acheived; as there can be any style of containment :)
Skylarian Isachenko: regarless of what you might or might not like
Eli Tauber: I just want the works to show, not some wall, glowing white behind them
Sasun Steinbeck: yes and since construction costs can be relatively cheap, you can always redo your building if it doesn't work out
Elese Faulkes: yes..it would be boring if all the galerys lookes the same
Saiwun Yoshikawa: turn around time is rather quick:)
Sasun Steinbeck: a pain, but that's a good excuse for a grand re-re-re-re-opening evente :)
Tommy Parrott: But, like I had said, your gallery should not be the focal point;) The art should (unless you wish to be an architect ;)
Eli Tauber: my space is inside a cavern, with natural light open on 2 sides
Van Caerndow: Tall walls are good for tall paintings
Elese Faulkes: yes true Van :)
Saiwun Yoshikawa: and tall people:)LOL
Eli Tauber: the only walls are the exterior cavern walls
Van Caerndow: we are all tall compared to RL
Davideo Zelnik: tall walls become space... volume... more dimension to work in
Skylarian Isachenko: There is also the fact that human avatars are not the only ones out there
Skylarian Isachenko: so you need to build for your community
Cogito Ultsch: we have underwater gallery space
Van Caerndow: I hate spaces where I cannot fit in the doorways
Sasun Steinbeck: good point Sky. Not sure if I've ever seen you as a human avatar :)
Skylarian Isachenko: I dont actually own one
Saiwun Yoshikawa: but u dont need walls in sl:)
Skylarian Isachenko: No point when I am an elder with the IOW
Tommy Parrott: Indeed; it helps to cater to all types; but, as the saying goes; you will not be able to please all of the people all of the time... ;) You simply try to accomodate them the best you can ;)
synergistic Merryman: Excuse me - IOW?
Sasun Steinbeck: I was recently asked "What does a gallery owner have to do in order to be commercially successful?" and I have some thoughts to share. I'd love this to be more of a jumping point to a discussion so please chime in!
Skylarian Isachenko: My main gallery is set up for normal folk, but with room on the roof for dragons
Skylarian Isachenko: Isle of Wyrms, the Dragons of Second Life
Sasun Steinbeck: My first bit of advice is STICK TO IT. I can't emphasize that enough. Too may artists get frustrated by lack of sales. There's a lot of art in SL, which could be seen as a lot of "competition" for the art lover's hard-earned money. It takes time and a lot of work marketing yourself, getting into art shows, getting known, getting to know the movers and shakers in the art scene so you get asked to participate in big events more. And that kind of thing can be very difficult for an artist to enjoy doing, I totally understand.
Elese Faulkes: oh yes..
Sasun Steinbeck: I always advise artists, if you are really here to make money, then ditch art and start building sex toys. It's a sad but true statement, you must admit. If you are after the almighty linden, you'll need to sell your soul and go where the money is. But if you create art for the love of it, and you pour yourself into it, maybe the money will come. But you need to be in a position where you just don't care if it does or not, since it won't at first, I can guarantee that! Eventually you can work on the marketing aspects and get help from others to do that, and next thing you know you'll be making some money.
Saiwun Yoshikawa: im not here to be commercial succesful:)
Tommy Parrott: What Sasun says will hit home ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: Nods, I have been here for 3 years now, and I still do not sell a lot, but I get much interest in my work on Deviant Art from my showings here
Van Caerndow: I think exposure is more important than sales
Davideo Zelnik: well said Sasun!
Sasun Steinbeck: Good point Sky, there's a lot of good places to participate like Deviant Art that help fuel interest in your SL art and vice-versa!
Van Caerndow: the artist needs his work to be seen...just like the musician needs to be heard
Sasun Steinbeck: yes exactly
Eli Tauber: making your personal statement is more important than making money
Elese Faulkes: I simply just love that people wish to view my work, thats enough for me..
Sasun Steinbeck: that there are lots of ways to accomplish that, but it takes some hustle
Saiwun Yoshikawa: or hassle:)LOL
Skylarian Isachenko: If you have the resources to foot the bill for sl thats cool
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd have to agree, I get more personal satisfaction and joy out of people sending me random comments then yet another faceless sale
Skylarian Isachenko: in my case I need to make at least expenses
Sasun Steinbeck: random NICE comments lol
Elese Faulkes: yes..I agree :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Also, ask other successful artists how they did it. Start with Filthy Fluno's advice here: http://www.artcalendar.com/article.asp?ID=193
Skylarian Isachenko: fortunately print sales fro my DA shoppe via my sl gallery have kept up
Tommy Parrott: The FRO himself!
Sasun Steinbeck: Learn from someone that's done it, don't reinvent the wheel. There is no one path to "success" which is something you need to personally define yourself
synergistic Merryman: In our gallery - mine and Elese Faulkes - we have found word of mouth - and how much our work is enjoyed is the main draw to our gallery - we have also been fairly lucky with sales as well - smiles.
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes word of mouth will always be a major factor
Van Caerndow: sometimes sales depend on price...
Saiwun Yoshikawa: getting invites to exhibits is a gr8 help for me:)
Sasun Steinbeck: Pricing is always difficult. If it's priced too high, people will balk. Starting out at 400-500L per piece when you are brand new is a good starting point. If you are successful and making sales, start raising your prices. I see 8000 pieces of art for sale by unknown or new artists all the time and wonder if they have EVER made a single sale.
Sasun Steinbeck: 8000L, I mean
Van Caerndow: we see the same thing in RL...and I wondwer what are they smoking?
Sasun Steinbeck: hahahah :D
Elise Benusconi: Van...could you elaborate on your experience with pricing?
Davideo Zelnik: I have wondered... could there be (is there?) a way for visitors to leave a comment at your gallery? Like a Ghest Book to sign and comment.
Skylarian Isachenko: You often wonder if they are theirs too. :)
Tommy Parrott: I have found the secret to a successful gallery (successful can be defined by others as many different things ;)is dedication to it:) If you take the time to nurture it and maintain it, it will bring you the satisfaction YOU desire; after all; you will only get out of it what you put into it ;)
Van Caerndow: well I agree that 400-800 seems to be customer friendly here in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: Hm Davideo, I don't know off the top of my head but I'd bet there are quite a few guestbook systems you could pick up on XstreetSL
Van Caerndow: in RL m ost people won't even pay that much
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I agree Van
Sasun Steinbeck: that's a good starting point
Davideo Zelnik: I will check that out ...ty
synergistic Merryman: Hummm - about pricing - the average price on the work I offer is arounf $L4000.00 and that price has not seemed to impead sales at all - some go as high as $L7000.00.
Van Caerndow: I think umless something is incredible and never been seen before...it is hard to get over 1000 lindens
Sasun Steinbeck: I should say I'm really talking about your basic 2D imported art
Skylarian Isachenko: I keep mine at 300l but I have a link in each one to my RL print and that is where I make a bit of money
Sasun Steinbeck: Sculpture is another story altogether
Van Caerndow: but I assume you are selling something more complex...I am not familiar with your work
synergistic Merryman: Oh - I might add all our work is our own and original.
Saiwun Yoshikawa: i sell interactive sculpture
Eli Tauber: Sky, do you do your own printing?
Van Caerndow: yes on sculture which is SL only then I think a higher price is fair
Skylarian Isachenko: I use DA prints service, they provide all the resources and handle the credit cards and such for me
Eli Tauber: ok
Tommy Parrott: Syn; you are one out of a handful; congratulations! Not many can sell works for that costs in SL ;) Seems you have a very unique product, or it is themed to a specific genre ;)
synergistic Merryman: I think personally - the time put into the work should dictate the price - some of my work takes months to create.
Sasun Steinbeck: that's a good point
Sasun Steinbeck: One tip on 2D art: take the time to learn about aspect ratios, and figure out the ideal size textures to upload so that they look good. I never buy art that is less than 512x512 resolution otherwise it looks blurry and you can't see any detail. A gallery loaded with 512's is going to be slow to rez, but for art to hang in your home, you want it to look great, not a pixellated blur-fest.
synergistic Merryman: Tommy - we have a broad range of topics - maybe we have just been extremely lucky
Skylarian Isachenko: Having scripted frames that allow you to size the art properly helps too
Tommy Parrott: Luck is being preparred when opportunity knocks;) You sound like you were ready ;)
Davideo Zelnik: any comments on who are the Buyers in SL... and where does the art go?
Skylarian Isachenko: keeps the buyers from screwing your images up.
Sasun Steinbeck: I have a free resizer open-source script I'd be glad to provide anyone that wants one
Sasun Steinbeck: tell you what, I'll send it out again on the Art Gallery Owner's group
Cogito Ultsch: awesome :)
Elese Faulkes: please Sasun..the one I boght is drving menuts
Sasun Steinbeck: it also works for sculpture - link sets
Skylarian Isachenko: Sasun is a heck of a scriptor, just what an artist in sl needs. :)
Seoreh Voight: thank you Sasun :)
Van Caerndow: i find the buyers are a few frinds, a few actual collectors, a few other wandering artists...and some seem to be totally random
synergistic Merryman: Sasun - that is very nice and generous of you - smiles
Sasun Steinbeck: my pleasure :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I've got a few more misc tips to share, I'd love your comments on
Saiwun Yoshikawa: http://www.secondnights.com/cms/index.php?option=com_zoo&view=category&layout=category&Itemid=62
Sasun Steinbeck: Go to events. Socialize. Meet some gallery owners, find out if they are looking for an artist. Join the Art & Artist Network and look for notices for free or cheap gallery space. Get into more shows. Learn how to market yourself. It's hard, I know!
10. Do any artists or galleries in Second Life earn enough of an income to allow them to not have to work in real life, say over $1 million linden a month?
Saiwun Yoshikawa: try this website:)
Sasun Steinbeck: Woops sorry a question got tacked onto the end of that
Saiwun Yoshikawa: its free:)
Apollo Reinard: sasun? I'd like to look at the resizer script, please.
Elese Faulkes: do you all give your work as gifts at weddings and such here?
Skylarian Isachenko: That is quite a question.... :)
Sasun Steinbeck: oh good one Saiwun, yes I recommend getting listed at that website. Iv'e been working with the owner of secondnights.com to share some data :)
Skylarian Isachenko: I hand out pieces for things like Yule now and then
Sasun Steinbeck: here is my answer to that question then :)
synergistic Merryman: OH my - make enough money in SL to live on in RL - my my - a beautiful dream - smiles
Sasun Steinbeck: Q: Do any artists or galleries in Second Life earn enough of an income to allow them to not have to work in real life, say over $1 million linden a month?
A: Good question, I think there are very very few, if any, that have ever made a living solely off SL art sales. The big money is not there like it is for fashion or sexually oriented items and services (cough).
Skylarian Isachenko: Sigh, the god of Hair and Shooes
Elese Faulkes: we always rez it at the party infrot of everyone..the gift tha is, nd we get lots of orders thatway...lol cheeky I know
Skylarian Isachenko: seems to like sl
Sasun Steinbeck: so my answer is really, I dunno :) I have no real data to have a real answer
Skylarian Isachenko: Those that do tend to keep such a close secret
Sasun Steinbeck: I suspect that may be true Sky
Skylarian Isachenko: after all they may have to pay taxes if they are found out
Skylarian Isachenko: :D
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL
Elese Faulkes: lol
Sasun Steinbeck: don't get me started on that, jeez
Van Caerndow: iT SEEMS THERE ARE VERY FEW ARTISTS WHO MAKE A LIVING IN RL LET ALONE SL
Skylarian Isachenko: now that, is a true statement
Van Caerndow: sorry caps lock
Skylarian Isachenko: and honestly I think those that do make a fair bit of money from sl art, are more likely pirates than artists
Davideo Zelnik: Van... amen to that
Skylarian Isachenko: just being honest
Sasun Steinbeck: yes the term "starvin' artist" is applicable just as much in SL as in RL!
Tommy Parrott: That is quite true;) I have to file for US income taxes for the porducts I create here, as with art, I imagine if one were to sell enough...
Van Caerndow: at least here the food is free
Sasun Steinbeck: hehehehe
Skylarian Isachenko: calorie free too
Skylarian Isachenko: :)
Seoreh Voight: lol
Saiwun Yoshikawa: i want a KFC bucket asap:)
synergistic Merryman: For special showings and events that we announce on a large scale - we usually make custom gifts that are practical and yet pieces of art - that most can appreciate - as an example - a silver serving tray with an etching of Else and I announcing the opening -with glasses to match the tray.
synergistic Merryman: *Elese
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes you just have to do it for the love of it, and if any money comes in, that's icing on the cake, though with a little bit of extra work and marketing, you can at least maximize the potential for your art to earn a bit more than if it's hiding away somewhere
Tommy Parrott: Indeed;)
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea syntergistic
Tommy Parrott: Exposure is the key ;)
Davideo Zelnik: Synerg... very ambitious, and very impressive :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I think one of the most powerful things we can do as a community is more collaborative things, and capitalize on the shared marketing and exposure
Elese Faulkes: Erotic art sells VERY well
Sasun Steinbeck: big events - large community gallery showings - etc. etc.
Skylarian Isachenko: And is generally not theirs too
Elese Faulkes: sky is that to me?
Tommy Parrott: Yes; it does; The Erotical Grand Gallery did well until Zindra ;)
synergistic Merryman: Smiles - both Elese and I love doing our art - that is our first priority - and then the sales - as mentioned are indedd icing on the cake.
Saiwun Yoshikawa: the secondnight website will help:)
Skylarian Isachenko: its usually stolen porn, no, not directly, just my experience
Sasun Steinbeck: good attitude, yes
Van Caerndow: thinking of doing a series of nude gunfights...
Skylarian Isachenko: there are some very good erotic artists
Skylarian Isachenko: though usually they get ripped
Van Caerndow: nah...just kidding.
Elese Faulkes: my work is all my wn hun..and it sells very well..thats waht I ws reffereing too :D
Skylarian Isachenko: and then too, where do you draw the line, on being on the adult contient or being able to be on the mainland?
Skylarian Isachenko: thats another bag of wyrms
Tommy Parrott: But, that goes along the lines of what Sasun said earlier; if you want to make money; sex sells.. ;) Just a matter of preference;)
Skylarian Isachenko: indeed, sex drives the net
Skylarian Isachenko: always has
Strider Messmer: Q: is there anything you would NOT sell?
Elese Faulkes: you can show the free hand not too relaistci work that can be shown on private sims..its not portn
synergistic Merryman: Sky - as mentioned before - ALL OUR WORK IS OUR OWN AND ORIGINAL!
Bobby Boelcke: I think It is important to be open also for art of others...many artists are interested only in showing there own stuff and less interested in others...we can not expect others to be interested in our art, if we ourself are not openminded...
Van Caerndow: that is why we all look so good.
Skylarian Isachenko: Syn, dotn be so defensive
synergistic Merryman: Both Elese and I do a fair share of erotic work.
Skylarian Isachenko: this is an open discussion
Elese Faulkes: yes it is.. :D
Eli Tauber: If I decide to start shooting people, I will lay down my camera and pick up a gun
Skylarian Isachenko: I do a lot of photographic nudes, you obviously have not looked at my profile
Skylarian Isachenko: my RL is very open
Sasun Steinbeck: yes these days with so much focus on stolen IP, I have talked to a few very concerned gallery owners that are legitimately representing a RL artist and don't want to be accused of art theft
Van Caerndow: funny I would neveer own a gun or shoot one but there are guns all over my western art
Elese Faulkes: in answer to your question sky, I wouldnt sell porn...or others work that I was passing on as my own.. :D
Strider Messmer: Q: for non-erotic art what is the "best selling" item in your experience?
Skylarian Isachenko: My comment was not aimed at or concerning you folk
Sasun Steinbeck: it's GOOD to have people concerned about that. There is so much stolen Adult schlock around, it's frightening
Elese Faulkes: I was just answer hun :D
Skylarian Isachenko: rather its common esperience from touring over 8000 sims over the years
Elese Faulkes: yes its terrible
Skylarian Isachenko: I do reserach for a university as part of my work here
Van Caerndow: I love all forms of art...from erotic...to 3D to abstract
Skylarian Isachenko: so I get around the grid, a LOT
Van Caerndow: as long as it is original
Eli Tauber: just today on the web, I was researching information on the web about an area in our county of intereste to me. I found a blog where soe guy was using my photographs and claiming he shot them
synergistic Merryman: My best selling item is a photorealistic paint that was created with pressure sensitive tablet called "Love At Sunset" - the theme being love found late in life - smiles
Elese Faulkes: Strider..for me, and from other artists that I know I wold say sci fi
Sasun Steinbeck: Does anyone have any kind of notice/greeter that they use that says something along the lines of "all art here is copyright blah blah and is sold here with the permission of the artist blah blah"?
synergistic Merryman: Took 3 months to create
Sasun Steinbeck: Ugh Eli that is such a horrible feeling to see that
Skylarian Isachenko: Mine have my own copyright on them, but then my rl and my sl are merged
Skylarian Isachenko: I do not separate the two at all
Tommy Parrott: Plagiary is rampant now Eli; sad you had to find out the hard way (about him), but, at least you have and are doing something about it :)
Elese Faulkes: sorry to hear that Eli :(
Eli Tauber: and he's telling peple he is going back to get more soon but he'll haveto ask my permission to cross the land
Van Caerndow: I have found that all 90 of the pieces I am currnetly showing in SL have about equal appeal with sales spread across the range
Strider Messmer: I have tried to have info about each artist that exhibits here at Canal Place. Does anyone else provide artist information and is it useful for sales?
Davideo Zelnik: such a curious thought Sasun the copyright in SL, I realize I am naive about this "ideal" art place called SL
Skylarian Isachenko: I find the whole information about the artist is worth while IF, its their RL bios
Davideo Zelnik: why would there be stealing? why Griefers ? etc
Sasun Steinbeck: I think that's a great thing to do, be up front and informative about where the art in your gallery came from, that helps people feel confident they are supporting a real artist, not some thief
Skylarian Isachenko: its pretty useless to me at least if its only SL
Mars Lake: I find artist info useful in determining I'm buying real work and not stolen
Sasun Steinbeck: Thought I suspect that most people just don't give a damn whether they are buying stolen art or not
Tommy Parrott: Correct:(
synergistic Merryman: Once again protection of the work seems to be an issue - we have transpareent copyrights that cover our work - even to make it so you would not dispaly in your home that way - but not enough to destroy the viewing of the artwork itself
Van Caerndow: I try and get to know the artist before I buy anything
Tommy Parrott: Just like the purchasers of knock-off Gucci bags :(
Davideo Zelnik: So, would you "recommend" putting Copyright Notices in out SL galleries"
Strider Messmer: I was curious about some comments by artists on particular works. Some examples are in the small shop here in Canal Place.
Sasun Steinbeck: I would, Davideo, yes
Davideo Zelnik: wow
Elese Faulkes: yes
Sasun Steinbeck: if something of yours is ever stolen, that will be a powerful piece of evidence on your side
Davideo Zelnik: of course.
Sasun Steinbeck: that you have given out clear notice that all art is copyright, no photographs allowed, etc.
Davideo Zelnik: cool
Sasun Steinbeck: that *may* deter a few casual thieves, to be honest
Mars Lake: Register you works RL, it gives you a lot more legal muscle
Davideo Zelnik: it really just seems reasonable.
Tommy Parrott: Anything created by my for the last year in the desc. line has "Copyright XXXX Tommy Parrott"; at least it might thwart an unscrupulous person ;)
Davideo Zelnik: and...
Sasun Steinbeck: the reality is that unless you are prepared to file somme DMCAs to stop theft of your IP when it happens, there's nothing you can do to stop it
Davideo Zelnik: could be written in a "friendly" way, not negative
Sasun Steinbeck: and/or pursue RL legal means to protect your IP
Sasun Steinbeck: yes definitely Davideo, good point
Sasun Steinbeck: make it a positive spin that they gallery visitor is seeing REAL art from a real artist, not some web ripoff crap
Skylarian Isachenko: Sadly people steal art from DA by the thousands, but we do what we can to at least make it unprofitable for them, filing when we find it and such.
Van Caerndow: but the problem really is if someone wants to use to work and sell it...
Tommy Parrott: Does anyonw have the "naked" textures for IP theft?:) I have many signs across the estate ;)
Eli Tauber: the images I was speaking abut a moment ago were on my mac.com gallery page
Van Caerndow: not if they want to print out a color copy with you standing in front of it for their cubicle wall
Tommy Parrott: If anyone would like the textures of Stroker, Tigerlily, etc (they are NOT naked ;) Lemme know ;)
Van Caerndow: i meant if they are stealing it for commercial reasons.
Elese Faulkes: May I have them #tommy please? :D
Mariposa Upshaw: I am wondering what tips you would give for management of a successful gallery Sasun..using the word "success" in its broadest sense as that word can mean alot of things to alot of people
Skylarian Isachenko: Those are great for public education
Tommy Parrott: They may not do anything, but, they might help; I find them very helpful for conveying the point;)
Mariposa Upshaw: and what galleries or museums you have found to be most successful in the long term
Van Caerndow: how to get more traffic
Sasun Steinbeck: good question, with lots of answers
Strider Messmer: THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME AND PLACE FOR SHARING USEFUL LM'S, URL'S, ETC SO THAT THEY CAN BE LOGGED IN THE CHAT.
Elise Benusconi: Any chance of their being a library set up with all the language, textures, scripts, etc. that gallery owners can share?
Elise Benusconi: there*
Sasun Steinbeck: Elise that has been a very good I've had on my "things to do someday" list for a long time now
Sasun Steinbeck: I think it would be really valuable to have some kind of info repository with all these tips and ideas in it somewhere for the budding gallery owner in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe someday I'll make some time to really do it right :)
Tommy Parrott: Anyone may take a full perm copy of the Naked series in the box, there are about 7 or so different sayings ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: but in the meantime I have some resources for anyone that would like to take on the job!
Sasun Steinbeck: and would be glad to contribute some notes and things :)
Mariposa Upshaw thinks sasun could use an assistant...
Sasun Steinbeck: marposa, I have my personal list of my favorite SL galleries on my blog, that I would consider the most "successful", being loosely and broadly defined. Let me dig out that link
Mariposa Upshaw: great ty Sasun :)
Sasun Steinbeck: hahah yes indeed. I need a staff!
synergistic Merryman: Tommy - if you are talking about the boc on the floor infront of the stage I cannot take a copy
Skylarian Isachenko: Its not set for copy
Skylarian Isachenko: yet
Skylarian Isachenko: :)
Seoreh Voight: I can't either
Skylarian Isachenko: SL is such a pain on setting perms
Strider Messmer: Q: one of my goals is to put art in my stores, attractions. Is there an artist's directory that would show the type of art sold?
Tommy Parrott: It is; SL for ya; will set to 0L$ ;)
Tommy Parrott: All set;)
Tommy Parrott: 0L$ ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: btw if you are a blog reader I have a blog more or less aimed at topics of interest to gallery owners at http://sl-artgalleries.blogspot.com
Sasun Steinbeck: and my "best of the best" galleries list is http://sl-artgalleries.blogspot.com/2009/07/sasuns-best-galleries-of-sl-updated.html
Elese Faulkes: thanks for those Tommy :D
synergistic Merryman: Thank you Tommy - smiles
Tommy Parrott: My pleasure!:)
Skylarian Isachenko: I will make up some more of those focused on art when I have a bit of time
Strider Messmer: Great info!
Seoreh Voight: thank you Tommy
Sasun Steinbeck: Which is probably in need of an update, so hey if you have any suggestions for my top 10 list let me know!
Glasz DeCuir: what about art auctions? Works really for promoting arts?
Sasun Steinbeck: Hm I have never been to an SL art auction
Sasun Steinbeck: No I take that back, been to one, some time ago. Doesn't seem to be very common, that's for sure
Mariposa Upshaw: i have run 4 very successful sl art auctions
Skylarian Isachenko: We have charity auctions, but I have never been to an art auction
Sasun Steinbeck: it was a charitable event so it raised a good bit of money
Mariposa Upshaw: for charity indeed
Van Caerndow: In RL...half my sales are at auctions...of course that money all goes to charity. Would like more auctions where the artist gets half of the proceeds.
Tommy Parrott: Art auctions can be profitable:) All depends on the mood of your bidders!:) Too bad you could snd them some RL wine to perk them up! LOL
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I do see art donated to charity auctions, I guess that counts
synergistic Merryman: Tommy - Sasun - would it be ok to rez an example of how we protect our work - maybe seeing would help?
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL Tommy
Sasun Steinbeck: yes please synergistic
Davideo Zelnik: yes ty
Tommy Parrott: Love to take a look ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: Of course there is one more catagory of art that is usually over looked and taht is the art of avatars, there are some makers whose work is pure art.
Van Caerndow: gotta run....Thank you.
Tommy Parrott: Behind door #!....
Sasun Steinbeck: excellent Mariposa, maybe you could write up a short summary of the experience and what made the auction successful and I can include that in the chat log
Tommy Parrott: LOL!
Elese Faulkes: Sky I have to agree..I havent doe hardly anything like that ever but thoughroughly love veiwing it :)
Tommy Parrott: Nice deep watermark ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: Its what keeps the Isle of Wyrms running, as all expenses are paid from the sale of the avatars.
Elese Faulkes: lol
Mariposa Upshaw: that would be a pleasure Sasun...the last one raised over 350,000 L for two in world charitable sims :)
Sasun Steinbeck: O.O
Sasun Steinbeck: wow! I'd love to share what you learned from that. Excellent work
Skylarian Isachenko: The copyright is on the display piece, and not on the sold piece?
Mariposa Upshaw: ty.. the sims that got the proceeds were VAI, Virtual Abilities Inc. and the Dreams sims
Mars Lake: Such watermarks bug me, personally I don;t support them. But everyone can do as they will.
Sasun Steinbeck: If you want to write up something lengthier I'd post it in my blog
Glasz DeCuir: impressive Mariposa
synergistic Merryman: We have found that protects the work fairly well - smiles
Sasun Steinbeck: the good thing is that it does foil the snapshotters
Cogito Ultsch: but you're not selling it iwht that showing, are you?
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe if it's just as subtle as possible... so you can still view the work, but stop the snapshotters that would be effective
Mariposa Upshaw: all from art.. all donated art.. 2d, sculpture and sl photography :) anyway, i will follow up with you Sasun, back to the regularly schedule program
Tommy Parrott: I presume this is for the display models only? :)
Sasun Steinbeck: great!
synergistic Merryman: We put an uncopyrighted copy in the contents and sell the content.
Sasun Steinbeck: is that overlaid on top or did you watermark it right on the texture? that will stop the texture thieves too
Sasun Steinbeck: if you did the latter
Tommy Parrott: :) So the final product is sans the watermark ;)
Elese Faulkes: its in the textue itslf
Cogito Ultsch: so someone can then still "get" is from the buyer's place
Sasun Steinbeck: great
Elise Benusconi: Thank you for putting together this event, Sasun and Tommy! :-) See you all soon!
synergistic Merryman: I put the watermark right into the texture
Tommy Parrott: TC Elise!
Elese Faulkes: bye Elise :)
Strider Messmer: I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IT THE APPROPRIATE TIME BUT I WANT TO LET AS MANY OF YOU KNOW AS POSSIBLE THAT I OFFER FREE SPACE HERE FOR TEMPORARY DISPLAYS OF YOUR WORK. ALL PROFITS ARE YOURS TO KEEP. NO COMMISSIONS. IF INTERESTED PLEASE CONTACT ME OR GLASZ DECUIR FOR DETAILS
Seoreh Voight: bye Elise
Skylarian Isachenko: In theory you could put a digital watermark in the texture, such as digimark, not sure how it would translate though.
Skylarian Isachenko: cannot search sl with digimark
synergistic Merryman: Will take that up now
Davideo Zelnik: my conflict with auctions is the paradox that those buyers might not buy direct from artists when not auction art
Sasun Steinbeck: Yeah when you upload a texture into SL it is recompressed... I wonder if that woud spoil a digital watermark?
Elese Faulkes: its not our first choice ay of showing our work either Mars...but after having friends have theirwork stolen, we felt we neded to do somethng :
Elese Faulkes: :(
Sasun Steinbeck: I guess you could find out easily enough by upoading then saving your texture back to your HD and see if the digital watermark is still there
synergistic Merryman: WE upload high textures for our work and that way they stay nice when SL compresses them
Mariposa Upshaw: Davideo, I usually solicit art from artists i have already shown as a curator.. i am familiar with them and their work and their work has been seen and set for sale at the galleries/museums where i curate.. its a win win situation.. karma comes full circle
Mars Lake: nods, it's a hard personal choice I wresteld with
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea Mariposa
Tommy Parrott: I have my own watermark, it takes a certain filter in PS to make it stand out, it is not predominate, but, with the righ combination of settings, clearly can bring the mark out ;)
Sandflea Lorefield: i do apologize, but may i ask a question on another topic?
Skylarian Isachenko: All of my art has a note card in it about my work too, so its always there
Davideo Zelnik: excellent reply, Mari... something to think about
Elese Faulkes: how do you achieve that sky?
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes I'm always so surprised to see low quality, low rez textures uploaded and sold in galleries... I have to wonder, did they just not look at the results very carefully, or just not aware of what a texture size even *is*, or what?
Tommy Parrott: LOL ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: Sandflea, its an open converastion
Skylarian Isachenko: ask your question
synergistic Merryman: I would like to hear Sand's question - smiles
Mars Lake: There are plenty that download from web, upload to sl, then sell, with no care for the art or how it looks
Sasun Steinbeck: \o/
Sandflea Lorefield: i don't want to inturrupt if everyone is committed to watermarks and IP. :)
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Mars very true
Skylarian Isachenko: I just place a notecard in the contents of the prim, I use scripted frames
Tommy Parrott: I had to make up an info sheet for new resis, so that they could be shown step by step how to create prim art in SL; saved me a lot of time ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: take out the note and you break the frame
Sasun Steinbeck: very good idea
Elese Faulkes: arrr....simply yet effective :)
synergistic Merryman: Sand - all questions and comments are appreciated I am sure
Sasun Steinbeck: indeed
Sandflea Lorefield: ty.
Sasun Steinbeck: did we miss any questions? Please re-ask if we did
Mars Lake: Mine are no-mod, so the notecard can;t be removed, all artwork sizing etc is scripted
Sandflea Lorefield: well, i was curious about the desirability of frames. does anyone know if they generate more sales?
Sasun Steinbeck: Good question!
Mariposa Upshaw: ty sasun and tommy for your time and sharing your knowledge :)
Sandflea Lorefield: ty
Tommy Parrott: My pleasure;)
Skylarian Isachenko: I like the ones I use, as they control the aspect ratio of the iamge so you cannot distort it
Sasun Steinbeck: 90% of the art I've bought is unframed. I love frames - unless I'm stuck with an ugly one chosen by the seller :\
Sandflea Lorefield: are they commercial Sky?
synergistic Merryman: I think a nicely framed piece of artwork draws more attention myself
Skylarian Isachenko: sales or not I will not sell with out them
synergistic Merryman: But that is a personal opinion
Skylarian Isachenko: they are actually I will send you a link later
Skylarian Isachenko: have to dig it out
Strider Messmer: I would think that framed art is more commercial to most buyers?
Skylarian Isachenko: :D
Sasun Steinbeck: I agree, in this age of sculptie frames you can keep the prim counts way down and still have a nice looking frame
Sandflea Lorefield: the balance for some of us is prims vs. presentation
Sasun Steinbeck: I've seen just a few good ones you can buy for resale. Full perm
Sasun Steinbeck: adding a frame takes it from 1 prim to 2, so not bad at all
Sandflea Lorefield: no, not too bad.
Strider Messmer: Q: has anyone every created their art as part of a performance before an audience?
synergistic Merryman: Ummm - well - one can at the frame to the texture before uploading - but then it is permanent
synergistic Merryman: Stays 1 prim that way
Sandflea Lorefield: yes. looks good tho!
Sasun Steinbeck: hm true
Tommy Parrott: I have my full perm frames for curators/gallery owners; single prim, and they sell fairly well; so, there is a desire for frames for sure; just finding the good ones is the hard part ;) lol
Sandflea Lorefield: yes, and what fits in your gallery may not fit the client's hom, so i sell without frames
Tommy Parrott: Cater to all ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: What about promoting your gallery via events, does anyone have any tips they'd like to share? I admit I don't have anywhere near as much experience with Tommy in this area, so I'd love to hear your thoughts Tommy :) I found it pretty difficult learning the ropes to putting on a decent gallery showing/event
Tommy Parrott: That is a successful gallery ;) Money or not; if you make people happy, and they bring more; then you have done your job;) Cant get them to buy (although, sometime you can ;)
synergistic Merryman: The thing is - if you add a frame to the the texture - and then allow modify - the frame can be expanded out of sight and they can add what ever frame of their own they might like - but that brings up the question of the modify permission and if it is good to allow modify?
Tommy Parrott: It is a necessity to have an event running for your gallery, not a classifed type worder ad, but an event letting people know you have something for them to come and explore ;) Events really help keep The Grand Gallery going ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: syn I insist on having either 1) modify or 2) a resizer script in all art I buy, so I can fit it into the space I have available
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes you do put on a lot of events
Sasun Steinbeck: How do you make an event successful and get good attendance?
synergistic Merryman: Sasun - I agree with your thinking on the modify issue
Sasun Steinbeck: I would of course recommend a gallery owner join the Art & Artist Network that I help moderate to advertise there! And the SL event listings too
synergistic Merryman: About events - the way Elese and I usually organize our events is through invites to friens and make it a party - but then Elese and I were hosts and dancers at clubs for a while and have long lists of friends as a result
Strider Messmer: Is that in SL search? the network?
Tommy Parrott: That is a hard call ;) I ust the event to draw people to come look at new artisans, I may rehash an older artisan, but, generally, our events are just a way of getting art lovers to one place at one time:) We place one event daily for the gallery fairly consistantly:)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd be glad to add anyone interested, just let me know via an IM please.
Sasun Steinbeck: but yes it is in search
Tommy Parrott: Syn; see, you hanve merged your prior skills together, and made a great match ;)
Tommy Parrott: That is one way of being successful; merging your other skills to make another happen ;) ;)
synergistic Merryman: Well - I have to thank Elese for her common interest in art with me and her desire to display artwork - that gave birth to our gallery in the first place - originally came to SL for fun and socializing!
Elese Faulkes: awww bless you :)
Skylarian Isachenko: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I've always wondered if advertising a gallery in one of the many SL magazines has ever been successful. Probably very tough to measure unless you keep a close eye on gallery traffic before and after the ad runs...
Skylarian Isachenko: Seems to happen that way a lot, I got dragged into SL by a dear friend,
Sasun Steinbeck: haha excellent Elese :)
Apollo Reinard: cu everyone. nice meeting otheres with similar goals. :))
Tommy Parrott: Yes;) A lot of data to keep track of and hash thru ;)
Sandflea Lorefield: perhaps you could key the ad to a freebie
Davideo Zelnik: say more about SL magazines?
Cogito Ultsch: and ty for the great discussion :)
Skylarian Isachenko: ummmm I can say taht an article about ou hels, but no ide bout an ad
Tommy Parrott: Ok folks, time's about up:) We would like to thank you for coming to this meeting, and hope you will stay for the festivities that follow musically for your sonic pleasure ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: Thank you so much for coming everyone
Skylarian Isachenko: We deeply appricate the opportunity
Sasun Steinbeck: I will make the chat log available on the Art Gallery Owners group
Skylarian Isachenko: was very informative
Sasun Steinbeck: and if you would like a copy just IM me
Davideo Zelnik: its been great! Thank you :)
Elese Faulkes: Thank you both very uch...as always I get so much from meeting evryone and learing new ideas..thanks
synergistic Merryman: I think these meeting can be extremely beneficial for all of us - Tommy and Sasun - thank you ever so much for how you support and offer these events - smiles
Tommy Parrott: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Thanks for your ideas and thoughts! That will be very helpful to the many people that read the chat log
Strider Messmer: EVERYONE PLEASE JOIN ME IN THANKING TOMMY AND SASUN FOR THEIR GREAT DISCUSSION
Elese Faulkes: Sasun....will you be doing the resize script in the group today?.I am keen to playwith it..lo
Strider Messmer: AND THANK YOURSELF FOR ALL YOUR REALLY USEFUL INPUT
Sasun Steinbeck: my pleasure synergistic, love the art community and am so glad to help keep it alive and growing :)
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I sure will Else!
Elese Faulkes: Goodie..and thanks so much :D
Tommy Parrott: ao on
Elese Faulkes: sky..may I ask you a question?
Sasun Steinbeck: Thanks Strider and Glasz for making this session happen!!
Skylarian Isachenko: sure
Sandflea Lorefield: :)
Ernst Maven: thank you very much!!!!
Seoreh Voight: thank you both Tommy and Sasun. :)
Strider Messmer: AND IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN A TEMP EXHIBIT HERE IN CANAL PLACE, PLEASE CONTACT ME FOR DETAILS
Sasun Steinbeck: stay for the music too!
Glasz DeCuir: Thanks all you for comming and participate :)
Elese Faulkes: at the IOW...where is the artwork...I most likely just walked by it knowig me but I didnt see it at all
Skylarian Isachenko: Part of my job is answering questons
Elese Faulkes: I would love to go back and check it out properly
Skylarian Isachenko: generally its the Avatars though we ahve some here and there hanging around
Elese Faulkes: I saw two amaing dragons
Skylarian Isachenko: If,
Elese Faulkes: amazing*
synergistic Merryman: This has been great guys
Skylarian Isachenko: lag allows
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I really enjoyed this!
Ernst Maven: thanks again, goodbye to all!!!!
Tommy Parrott: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Lots of good ideas
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you all! mwah!
Elese Faulkes: bye bye Ernst :)
synergistic Merryman: Thank you again - ever so much
Seoreh Voight: I learned a lot, ty
Sasun Steinbeck: good good!
The Art Galleries of SL List is available at http://sasun.info/ArtGalleriesOfSL.htm.
New visitors, please read: About This Blog
New visitors, please read: About This Blog