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Thursday, December 10, 2009
I have a standalone version of the Gallery HUD that I sell commercially that would be perfect for some pre-chosen locations, so we are going to give it an official public test run next tuesday, Dec 15th at noon PST for a 1 (or 2) hour tour. The intent is to raise some awareness of the gallery rating system and get some more ratings for some galleries we'll pick out beforehand. And make sure the group tour mode works! :)
It will be fun! Guided tours are a great way to socialize and explore some new places. Hope to see you there! secondlife://Optimal/35/143/29
Tuesday, December 8, 2009
Strider Messmer: Welcome to everyone who just arrived
Strider Messmer: I WILL USE CAPS TO HELP IN THE ADMIN NOTICES
Cogito Ultsch: hi :)
Sasun Steinbeck: hi Cogito :)
Strider Messmer: WELCOME EVERYONE TO CANAL PLACE
Strider Messmer: PLEASE BE SEATED
Gracie Kendal: Hi Mari L:)
Strider Messmer: IF YOU WISH I WILL BE USING VOICE AND TYPE CHAT BOTH
Skylarian Isachenko: You are going to be needing more seating
Strider Messmer: I WILL REZZ MORE IN A MOMENT
Gracie Kendal: Heya Apollo :)
Indigo Mertel: Hi
Mariposa Upshaw: hiya ms. gracie :)
JackC Citron: Hi =)
Strider Messmer: OUR FIRST PRESENTER IS THE OWNER OF, PERHAPS, THE LARGEST GALLERY IN SL.
Gracie Kendal: Hi there :)
Sasun Steinbeck claps
Strider Messmer: I MET HIM SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND HAVE BENEFITED FROM HIS ADVICE AND SOME OF HIS PERSONAL CREATIONS.
Indigo Mertel: Applause!!!
Strider Messmer: PLEASE JOIN WITH ME IN WELCOMING TOMMY PARROT!
Tommy Parrott: Thank you for having me ;)
Mars Lake: ? Applause ? Applause ? Applause ?
Indigo Mertel: Applause!!!
Apollo Reinard: welcome Tommy
Tommy Parrott: Thank you all for coming; and hopefully; this will help anyone that needs the guidance ;)
Ernst Maven: hey
Sasun Steinbeck: Welcome everyone!
Davideo Zelnik: hey :)
Skylarian Isachenko: Always open to learning more skills in the arts. and making a living is certain a skill.
Tommy Parrott: I see a lot of new blood here, as well as many seasoned veterans ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd like to put in a plug for my group as we get things rolling here. I want people to know that help with this topic is available from quite a few sources - your fellow gallery owners are always willing to help, and asking questions of this sort are exactly what the Art Gallery Owner's group is for, so please join and ask about how to build and manage your gallery :)
Tommy Parrott: That is a great group for art related information; one cant live without for reaching the masses art wise: )
Sasun Steinbeck: yes the power of SL is community and that means getting out and meeting some fellow gallery owners, and attending things like this where we can all share and help each other be successful
Sasun Steinbeck: so don't be an art recluse too often lol :)
Tommy Parrott: Ok ;) You have come by to get some more understanding of building & maintainging an art gallery ;) There are several factors involved in the process of constructing a gallery ;) A successful gallery comes from lots of hard work, and dedication to the facility ;)
Tommy Parrott: Butilding a gallery can be a tricky task, as when building a gallery, I tend to try to make it very bland, yet appealing at the same time, as to not take way from the art you are displaying ;)
Tommy Parrott: After all; that is what they have come to your gallery for;) The art (well, sometimes the arch. also ;)
Tommy Parrott: So, I suggest keeping yout gallery enclosure to the minimum to keep it looking acceptable ;) If too lavish, people tend to leave quickly, as they are distracted by the gallery itself ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes that's a good point, if you're not a wiz builder you might consider hiring someone to build something unique for you, part of the attraction of any gallery is the building itself!
Tommy Parrott: :)
Skylarian Isachenko: Indeed so, many of the ones I visit for the first time, I do because of the build
Sasun Steinbeck: hehe yes you can go *too* far of course
Skylarian Isachenko: grins
Skylarian Isachenko: Zero Point?
Skylarian Isachenko: though its gorgeous as a work in its own right
Tommy Parrott: Indeed!:) Arch. can make or break a build for sure:) I have seen many galleries that are simply, and very effective; on the other hand, have seen many that are very busy, and confusing :)
Tommy Parrott: If you make it a pleasant environment for them, they will stay and enjoy the surroundings;) So, plan your builds accordingly to your theme, and remember the K.I.S.S rule, as it works well ;)
synergistic Merryman: Kiss rule?
Mariposa Upshaw: keepitsimple
Tommy Parrott: Keep it Simple Stupid ;)
Apollo Reinard: keep it simple. (dummy)
Mariposa Upshaw waves to apollo
Tommy Parrott: (NO OFFENSE to anyone! ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd like to chime in about one pet peeve of mine related to the buildings
Tommy Parrott: lol
Seoreh Voight: lol
Apollo Reinard: hey Mari :)
Sasun Steinbeck: please make sure it's not too cramped inside - that tends to make alt-zoomingn with your camera an extremely frustrating exercise
Sasun Steinbeck: when your camera is bouncing all over and going behind walls as you navigate a cramped gallery - ugh that drives me nuts
Tommy Parrott: Yes; Sasun, you are correct;) Many are too low;)
Davideo Zelnik: low?
Tommy Parrott: I always build mine at a MIN. of 5 meters; as 15 feet for a ceiling is a good minimum ;)
synergistic Merryman: The thing is - keep the art at a nice viewable level
Tommy Parrott: Open space in your design will assure that can happen ;) A well plannned build can do wonders ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: Good point if it's above the default camera level on a huge wall people will miss it
Eli Tauber: I'm trying to not use walls at all, any ideas on that?
synergistic Merryman: Hanging partitions can work well if well designed
Tommy Parrott: That can be quite appealing ;) I did an outdoor venure similar to that:) If creatively placed, why not:) The nice thing about SL is there are no physical boundaries to limit your imagination ;)
Eli Tauber: sort of been messing with using a .50 dia glass tube for that
Elese Faulkes: hanging partitions that are made of perspex maybe, with the back of your paintings/photos made transparent works great
Elise Benusconi: Perspex?
Eli Tauber: plexiglas
Skylarian Isachenko: glass
Skylarian Isachenko: only plastic
Elese Faulkes: its strong plastic..type stuff..lol
Van Caerndow: I like walls....tall walls
Elese Faulkes: I dislike tall walls..lol
Skylarian Isachenko: Remember of course your trying to sell art, so look at things from your clients perspective
Tommy Parrott: That is the great thing about SL; any style can be acheived; as there can be any style of containment :)
Skylarian Isachenko: regarless of what you might or might not like
Eli Tauber: I just want the works to show, not some wall, glowing white behind them
Sasun Steinbeck: yes and since construction costs can be relatively cheap, you can always redo your building if it doesn't work out
Elese Faulkes: yes..it would be boring if all the galerys lookes the same
Saiwun Yoshikawa: turn around time is rather quick:)
Sasun Steinbeck: a pain, but that's a good excuse for a grand re-re-re-re-opening evente :)
Tommy Parrott: But, like I had said, your gallery should not be the focal point;) The art should (unless you wish to be an architect ;)
Eli Tauber: my space is inside a cavern, with natural light open on 2 sides
Van Caerndow: Tall walls are good for tall paintings
Elese Faulkes: yes true Van :)
Saiwun Yoshikawa: and tall people:)LOL
Eli Tauber: the only walls are the exterior cavern walls
Van Caerndow: we are all tall compared to RL
Davideo Zelnik: tall walls become space... volume... more dimension to work in
Skylarian Isachenko: There is also the fact that human avatars are not the only ones out there
Skylarian Isachenko: so you need to build for your community
Cogito Ultsch: we have underwater gallery space
Van Caerndow: I hate spaces where I cannot fit in the doorways
Sasun Steinbeck: good point Sky. Not sure if I've ever seen you as a human avatar :)
Skylarian Isachenko: I dont actually own one
Saiwun Yoshikawa: but u dont need walls in sl:)
Skylarian Isachenko: No point when I am an elder with the IOW
Tommy Parrott: Indeed; it helps to cater to all types; but, as the saying goes; you will not be able to please all of the people all of the time... ;) You simply try to accomodate them the best you can ;)
synergistic Merryman: Excuse me - IOW?
Sasun Steinbeck: I was recently asked "What does a gallery owner have to do in order to be commercially successful?" and I have some thoughts to share. I'd love this to be more of a jumping point to a discussion so please chime in!
Skylarian Isachenko: My main gallery is set up for normal folk, but with room on the roof for dragons
Skylarian Isachenko: Isle of Wyrms, the Dragons of Second Life
Sasun Steinbeck: My first bit of advice is STICK TO IT. I can't emphasize that enough. Too may artists get frustrated by lack of sales. There's a lot of art in SL, which could be seen as a lot of "competition" for the art lover's hard-earned money. It takes time and a lot of work marketing yourself, getting into art shows, getting known, getting to know the movers and shakers in the art scene so you get asked to participate in big events more. And that kind of thing can be very difficult for an artist to enjoy doing, I totally understand.
Elese Faulkes: oh yes..
Sasun Steinbeck: I always advise artists, if you are really here to make money, then ditch art and start building sex toys. It's a sad but true statement, you must admit. If you are after the almighty linden, you'll need to sell your soul and go where the money is. But if you create art for the love of it, and you pour yourself into it, maybe the money will come. But you need to be in a position where you just don't care if it does or not, since it won't at first, I can guarantee that! Eventually you can work on the marketing aspects and get help from others to do that, and next thing you know you'll be making some money.
Saiwun Yoshikawa: im not here to be commercial succesful:)
Tommy Parrott: What Sasun says will hit home ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: Nods, I have been here for 3 years now, and I still do not sell a lot, but I get much interest in my work on Deviant Art from my showings here
Van Caerndow: I think exposure is more important than sales
Davideo Zelnik: well said Sasun!
Sasun Steinbeck: Good point Sky, there's a lot of good places to participate like Deviant Art that help fuel interest in your SL art and vice-versa!
Van Caerndow: the artist needs his work to be seen...just like the musician needs to be heard
Sasun Steinbeck: yes exactly
Eli Tauber: making your personal statement is more important than making money
Elese Faulkes: I simply just love that people wish to view my work, thats enough for me..
Sasun Steinbeck: that there are lots of ways to accomplish that, but it takes some hustle
Saiwun Yoshikawa: or hassle:)LOL
Skylarian Isachenko: If you have the resources to foot the bill for sl thats cool
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd have to agree, I get more personal satisfaction and joy out of people sending me random comments then yet another faceless sale
Skylarian Isachenko: in my case I need to make at least expenses
Sasun Steinbeck: random NICE comments lol
Elese Faulkes: yes..I agree :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Also, ask other successful artists how they did it. Start with Filthy Fluno's advice here: http://www.artcalendar.com/article.asp?ID=193
Skylarian Isachenko: fortunately print sales fro my DA shoppe via my sl gallery have kept up
Tommy Parrott: The FRO himself!
Sasun Steinbeck: Learn from someone that's done it, don't reinvent the wheel. There is no one path to "success" which is something you need to personally define yourself
synergistic Merryman: In our gallery - mine and Elese Faulkes - we have found word of mouth - and how much our work is enjoyed is the main draw to our gallery - we have also been fairly lucky with sales as well - smiles.
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes word of mouth will always be a major factor
Van Caerndow: sometimes sales depend on price...
Saiwun Yoshikawa: getting invites to exhibits is a gr8 help for me:)
Sasun Steinbeck: Pricing is always difficult. If it's priced too high, people will balk. Starting out at 400-500L per piece when you are brand new is a good starting point. If you are successful and making sales, start raising your prices. I see 8000 pieces of art for sale by unknown or new artists all the time and wonder if they have EVER made a single sale.
Sasun Steinbeck: 8000L, I mean
Van Caerndow: we see the same thing in RL...and I wondwer what are they smoking?
Sasun Steinbeck: hahahah :D
Elise Benusconi: Van...could you elaborate on your experience with pricing?
Davideo Zelnik: I have wondered... could there be (is there?) a way for visitors to leave a comment at your gallery? Like a Ghest Book to sign and comment.
Skylarian Isachenko: You often wonder if they are theirs too. :)
Tommy Parrott: I have found the secret to a successful gallery (successful can be defined by others as many different things ;)is dedication to it:) If you take the time to nurture it and maintain it, it will bring you the satisfaction YOU desire; after all; you will only get out of it what you put into it ;)
Van Caerndow: well I agree that 400-800 seems to be customer friendly here in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: Hm Davideo, I don't know off the top of my head but I'd bet there are quite a few guestbook systems you could pick up on XstreetSL
Van Caerndow: in RL m ost people won't even pay that much
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I agree Van
Sasun Steinbeck: that's a good starting point
Davideo Zelnik: I will check that out ...ty
synergistic Merryman: Hummm - about pricing - the average price on the work I offer is arounf $L4000.00 and that price has not seemed to impead sales at all - some go as high as $L7000.00.
Van Caerndow: I think umless something is incredible and never been seen before...it is hard to get over 1000 lindens
Sasun Steinbeck: I should say I'm really talking about your basic 2D imported art
Skylarian Isachenko: I keep mine at 300l but I have a link in each one to my RL print and that is where I make a bit of money
Sasun Steinbeck: Sculpture is another story altogether
Van Caerndow: but I assume you are selling something more complex...I am not familiar with your work
synergistic Merryman: Oh - I might add all our work is our own and original.
Saiwun Yoshikawa: i sell interactive sculpture
Eli Tauber: Sky, do you do your own printing?
Van Caerndow: yes on sculture which is SL only then I think a higher price is fair
Skylarian Isachenko: I use DA prints service, they provide all the resources and handle the credit cards and such for me
Eli Tauber: ok
Tommy Parrott: Syn; you are one out of a handful; congratulations! Not many can sell works for that costs in SL ;) Seems you have a very unique product, or it is themed to a specific genre ;)
synergistic Merryman: I think personally - the time put into the work should dictate the price - some of my work takes months to create.
Sasun Steinbeck: that's a good point
Sasun Steinbeck: One tip on 2D art: take the time to learn about aspect ratios, and figure out the ideal size textures to upload so that they look good. I never buy art that is less than 512x512 resolution otherwise it looks blurry and you can't see any detail. A gallery loaded with 512's is going to be slow to rez, but for art to hang in your home, you want it to look great, not a pixellated blur-fest.
synergistic Merryman: Tommy - we have a broad range of topics - maybe we have just been extremely lucky
Skylarian Isachenko: Having scripted frames that allow you to size the art properly helps too
Tommy Parrott: Luck is being preparred when opportunity knocks;) You sound like you were ready ;)
Davideo Zelnik: any comments on who are the Buyers in SL... and where does the art go?
Skylarian Isachenko: keeps the buyers from screwing your images up.
Sasun Steinbeck: I have a free resizer open-source script I'd be glad to provide anyone that wants one
Sasun Steinbeck: tell you what, I'll send it out again on the Art Gallery Owner's group
Cogito Ultsch: awesome :)
Elese Faulkes: please Sasun..the one I boght is drving menuts
Sasun Steinbeck: it also works for sculpture - link sets
Skylarian Isachenko: Sasun is a heck of a scriptor, just what an artist in sl needs. :)
Seoreh Voight: thank you Sasun :)
Van Caerndow: i find the buyers are a few frinds, a few actual collectors, a few other wandering artists...and some seem to be totally random
synergistic Merryman: Sasun - that is very nice and generous of you - smiles
Sasun Steinbeck: my pleasure :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I've got a few more misc tips to share, I'd love your comments on
Saiwun Yoshikawa: http://www.secondnights.com/cms/index.php?option=com_zoo&view=category&layout=category&Itemid=62
Sasun Steinbeck: Go to events. Socialize. Meet some gallery owners, find out if they are looking for an artist. Join the Art & Artist Network and look for notices for free or cheap gallery space. Get into more shows. Learn how to market yourself. It's hard, I know!
10. Do any artists or galleries in Second Life earn enough of an income to allow them to not have to work in real life, say over $1 million linden a month?
Saiwun Yoshikawa: try this website:)
Sasun Steinbeck: Woops sorry a question got tacked onto the end of that
Saiwun Yoshikawa: its free:)
Apollo Reinard: sasun? I'd like to look at the resizer script, please.
Elese Faulkes: do you all give your work as gifts at weddings and such here?
Skylarian Isachenko: That is quite a question.... :)
Sasun Steinbeck: oh good one Saiwun, yes I recommend getting listed at that website. Iv'e been working with the owner of secondnights.com to share some data :)
Skylarian Isachenko: I hand out pieces for things like Yule now and then
Sasun Steinbeck: here is my answer to that question then :)
synergistic Merryman: OH my - make enough money in SL to live on in RL - my my - a beautiful dream - smiles
Sasun Steinbeck: Q: Do any artists or galleries in Second Life earn enough of an income to allow them to not have to work in real life, say over $1 million linden a month?
A: Good question, I think there are very very few, if any, that have ever made a living solely off SL art sales. The big money is not there like it is for fashion or sexually oriented items and services (cough).
Skylarian Isachenko: Sigh, the god of Hair and Shooes
Elese Faulkes: we always rez it at the party infrot of everyone..the gift tha is, nd we get lots of orders thatway...lol cheeky I know
Skylarian Isachenko: seems to like sl
Sasun Steinbeck: so my answer is really, I dunno :) I have no real data to have a real answer
Skylarian Isachenko: Those that do tend to keep such a close secret
Sasun Steinbeck: I suspect that may be true Sky
Skylarian Isachenko: after all they may have to pay taxes if they are found out
Skylarian Isachenko: :D
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL
Elese Faulkes: lol
Sasun Steinbeck: don't get me started on that, jeez
Van Caerndow: iT SEEMS THERE ARE VERY FEW ARTISTS WHO MAKE A LIVING IN RL LET ALONE SL
Skylarian Isachenko: now that, is a true statement
Van Caerndow: sorry caps lock
Skylarian Isachenko: and honestly I think those that do make a fair bit of money from sl art, are more likely pirates than artists
Davideo Zelnik: Van... amen to that
Skylarian Isachenko: just being honest
Sasun Steinbeck: yes the term "starvin' artist" is applicable just as much in SL as in RL!
Tommy Parrott: That is quite true;) I have to file for US income taxes for the porducts I create here, as with art, I imagine if one were to sell enough...
Van Caerndow: at least here the food is free
Sasun Steinbeck: hehehehe
Skylarian Isachenko: calorie free too
Skylarian Isachenko: :)
Seoreh Voight: lol
Saiwun Yoshikawa: i want a KFC bucket asap:)
synergistic Merryman: For special showings and events that we announce on a large scale - we usually make custom gifts that are practical and yet pieces of art - that most can appreciate - as an example - a silver serving tray with an etching of Else and I announcing the opening -with glasses to match the tray.
synergistic Merryman: *Elese
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes you just have to do it for the love of it, and if any money comes in, that's icing on the cake, though with a little bit of extra work and marketing, you can at least maximize the potential for your art to earn a bit more than if it's hiding away somewhere
Tommy Parrott: Indeed;)
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea syntergistic
Tommy Parrott: Exposure is the key ;)
Davideo Zelnik: Synerg... very ambitious, and very impressive :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I think one of the most powerful things we can do as a community is more collaborative things, and capitalize on the shared marketing and exposure
Elese Faulkes: Erotic art sells VERY well
Sasun Steinbeck: big events - large community gallery showings - etc. etc.
Skylarian Isachenko: And is generally not theirs too
Elese Faulkes: sky is that to me?
Tommy Parrott: Yes; it does; The Erotical Grand Gallery did well until Zindra ;)
synergistic Merryman: Smiles - both Elese and I love doing our art - that is our first priority - and then the sales - as mentioned are indedd icing on the cake.
Saiwun Yoshikawa: the secondnight website will help:)
Skylarian Isachenko: its usually stolen porn, no, not directly, just my experience
Sasun Steinbeck: good attitude, yes
Van Caerndow: thinking of doing a series of nude gunfights...
Skylarian Isachenko: there are some very good erotic artists
Skylarian Isachenko: though usually they get ripped
Van Caerndow: nah...just kidding.
Elese Faulkes: my work is all my wn hun..and it sells very well..thats waht I ws reffereing too :D
Skylarian Isachenko: and then too, where do you draw the line, on being on the adult contient or being able to be on the mainland?
Skylarian Isachenko: thats another bag of wyrms
Tommy Parrott: But, that goes along the lines of what Sasun said earlier; if you want to make money; sex sells.. ;) Just a matter of preference;)
Skylarian Isachenko: indeed, sex drives the net
Skylarian Isachenko: always has
Strider Messmer: Q: is there anything you would NOT sell?
Elese Faulkes: you can show the free hand not too relaistci work that can be shown on private sims..its not portn
synergistic Merryman: Sky - as mentioned before - ALL OUR WORK IS OUR OWN AND ORIGINAL!
Bobby Boelcke: I think It is important to be open also for art of others...many artists are interested only in showing there own stuff and less interested in others...we can not expect others to be interested in our art, if we ourself are not openminded...
Van Caerndow: that is why we all look so good.
Skylarian Isachenko: Syn, dotn be so defensive
synergistic Merryman: Both Elese and I do a fair share of erotic work.
Skylarian Isachenko: this is an open discussion
Elese Faulkes: yes it is.. :D
Eli Tauber: If I decide to start shooting people, I will lay down my camera and pick up a gun
Skylarian Isachenko: I do a lot of photographic nudes, you obviously have not looked at my profile
Skylarian Isachenko: my RL is very open
Sasun Steinbeck: yes these days with so much focus on stolen IP, I have talked to a few very concerned gallery owners that are legitimately representing a RL artist and don't want to be accused of art theft
Van Caerndow: funny I would neveer own a gun or shoot one but there are guns all over my western art
Elese Faulkes: in answer to your question sky, I wouldnt sell porn...or others work that I was passing on as my own.. :D
Strider Messmer: Q: for non-erotic art what is the "best selling" item in your experience?
Skylarian Isachenko: My comment was not aimed at or concerning you folk
Sasun Steinbeck: it's GOOD to have people concerned about that. There is so much stolen Adult schlock around, it's frightening
Elese Faulkes: I was just answer hun :D
Skylarian Isachenko: rather its common esperience from touring over 8000 sims over the years
Elese Faulkes: yes its terrible
Skylarian Isachenko: I do reserach for a university as part of my work here
Van Caerndow: I love all forms of art...from erotic...to 3D to abstract
Skylarian Isachenko: so I get around the grid, a LOT
Van Caerndow: as long as it is original
Eli Tauber: just today on the web, I was researching information on the web about an area in our county of intereste to me. I found a blog where soe guy was using my photographs and claiming he shot them
synergistic Merryman: My best selling item is a photorealistic paint that was created with pressure sensitive tablet called "Love At Sunset" - the theme being love found late in life - smiles
Elese Faulkes: Strider..for me, and from other artists that I know I wold say sci fi
Sasun Steinbeck: Does anyone have any kind of notice/greeter that they use that says something along the lines of "all art here is copyright blah blah and is sold here with the permission of the artist blah blah"?
synergistic Merryman: Took 3 months to create
Sasun Steinbeck: Ugh Eli that is such a horrible feeling to see that
Skylarian Isachenko: Mine have my own copyright on them, but then my rl and my sl are merged
Skylarian Isachenko: I do not separate the two at all
Tommy Parrott: Plagiary is rampant now Eli; sad you had to find out the hard way (about him), but, at least you have and are doing something about it :)
Elese Faulkes: sorry to hear that Eli :(
Eli Tauber: and he's telling peple he is going back to get more soon but he'll haveto ask my permission to cross the land
Van Caerndow: I have found that all 90 of the pieces I am currnetly showing in SL have about equal appeal with sales spread across the range
Strider Messmer: I have tried to have info about each artist that exhibits here at Canal Place. Does anyone else provide artist information and is it useful for sales?
Davideo Zelnik: such a curious thought Sasun the copyright in SL, I realize I am naive about this "ideal" art place called SL
Skylarian Isachenko: I find the whole information about the artist is worth while IF, its their RL bios
Davideo Zelnik: why would there be stealing? why Griefers ? etc
Sasun Steinbeck: I think that's a great thing to do, be up front and informative about where the art in your gallery came from, that helps people feel confident they are supporting a real artist, not some thief
Skylarian Isachenko: its pretty useless to me at least if its only SL
Mars Lake: I find artist info useful in determining I'm buying real work and not stolen
Sasun Steinbeck: Thought I suspect that most people just don't give a damn whether they are buying stolen art or not
Tommy Parrott: Correct:(
synergistic Merryman: Once again protection of the work seems to be an issue - we have transpareent copyrights that cover our work - even to make it so you would not dispaly in your home that way - but not enough to destroy the viewing of the artwork itself
Van Caerndow: I try and get to know the artist before I buy anything
Tommy Parrott: Just like the purchasers of knock-off Gucci bags :(
Davideo Zelnik: So, would you "recommend" putting Copyright Notices in out SL galleries"
Strider Messmer: I was curious about some comments by artists on particular works. Some examples are in the small shop here in Canal Place.
Sasun Steinbeck: I would, Davideo, yes
Davideo Zelnik: wow
Elese Faulkes: yes
Sasun Steinbeck: if something of yours is ever stolen, that will be a powerful piece of evidence on your side
Davideo Zelnik: of course.
Sasun Steinbeck: that you have given out clear notice that all art is copyright, no photographs allowed, etc.
Davideo Zelnik: cool
Sasun Steinbeck: that *may* deter a few casual thieves, to be honest
Mars Lake: Register you works RL, it gives you a lot more legal muscle
Davideo Zelnik: it really just seems reasonable.
Tommy Parrott: Anything created by my for the last year in the desc. line has "Copyright XXXX Tommy Parrott"; at least it might thwart an unscrupulous person ;)
Davideo Zelnik: and...
Sasun Steinbeck: the reality is that unless you are prepared to file somme DMCAs to stop theft of your IP when it happens, there's nothing you can do to stop it
Davideo Zelnik: could be written in a "friendly" way, not negative
Sasun Steinbeck: and/or pursue RL legal means to protect your IP
Sasun Steinbeck: yes definitely Davideo, good point
Sasun Steinbeck: make it a positive spin that they gallery visitor is seeing REAL art from a real artist, not some web ripoff crap
Skylarian Isachenko: Sadly people steal art from DA by the thousands, but we do what we can to at least make it unprofitable for them, filing when we find it and such.
Van Caerndow: but the problem really is if someone wants to use to work and sell it...
Tommy Parrott: Does anyonw have the "naked" textures for IP theft?:) I have many signs across the estate ;)
Eli Tauber: the images I was speaking abut a moment ago were on my mac.com gallery page
Van Caerndow: not if they want to print out a color copy with you standing in front of it for their cubicle wall
Tommy Parrott: If anyone would like the textures of Stroker, Tigerlily, etc (they are NOT naked ;) Lemme know ;)
Van Caerndow: i meant if they are stealing it for commercial reasons.
Elese Faulkes: May I have them #tommy please? :D
Mariposa Upshaw: I am wondering what tips you would give for management of a successful gallery Sasun..using the word "success" in its broadest sense as that word can mean alot of things to alot of people
Skylarian Isachenko: Those are great for public education
Tommy Parrott: They may not do anything, but, they might help; I find them very helpful for conveying the point;)
Mariposa Upshaw: and what galleries or museums you have found to be most successful in the long term
Van Caerndow: how to get more traffic
Sasun Steinbeck: good question, with lots of answers
Strider Messmer: THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME AND PLACE FOR SHARING USEFUL LM'S, URL'S, ETC SO THAT THEY CAN BE LOGGED IN THE CHAT.
Elise Benusconi: Any chance of their being a library set up with all the language, textures, scripts, etc. that gallery owners can share?
Elise Benusconi: there*
Sasun Steinbeck: Elise that has been a very good I've had on my "things to do someday" list for a long time now
Sasun Steinbeck: I think it would be really valuable to have some kind of info repository with all these tips and ideas in it somewhere for the budding gallery owner in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe someday I'll make some time to really do it right :)
Tommy Parrott: Anyone may take a full perm copy of the Naked series in the box, there are about 7 or so different sayings ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: but in the meantime I have some resources for anyone that would like to take on the job!
Sasun Steinbeck: and would be glad to contribute some notes and things :)
Mariposa Upshaw thinks sasun could use an assistant...
Sasun Steinbeck: marposa, I have my personal list of my favorite SL galleries on my blog, that I would consider the most "successful", being loosely and broadly defined. Let me dig out that link
Mariposa Upshaw: great ty Sasun :)
Sasun Steinbeck: hahah yes indeed. I need a staff!
synergistic Merryman: Tommy - if you are talking about the boc on the floor infront of the stage I cannot take a copy
Skylarian Isachenko: Its not set for copy
Skylarian Isachenko: yet
Skylarian Isachenko: :)
Seoreh Voight: I can't either
Skylarian Isachenko: SL is such a pain on setting perms
Strider Messmer: Q: one of my goals is to put art in my stores, attractions. Is there an artist's directory that would show the type of art sold?
Tommy Parrott: It is; SL for ya; will set to 0L$ ;)
Tommy Parrott: All set;)
Tommy Parrott: 0L$ ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: btw if you are a blog reader I have a blog more or less aimed at topics of interest to gallery owners at http://sl-artgalleries.blogspot.com
Sasun Steinbeck: and my "best of the best" galleries list is http://sl-artgalleries.blogspot.com/2009/07/sasuns-best-galleries-of-sl-updated.html
Elese Faulkes: thanks for those Tommy :D
synergistic Merryman: Thank you Tommy - smiles
Tommy Parrott: My pleasure!:)
Skylarian Isachenko: I will make up some more of those focused on art when I have a bit of time
Strider Messmer: Great info!
Seoreh Voight: thank you Tommy
Sasun Steinbeck: Which is probably in need of an update, so hey if you have any suggestions for my top 10 list let me know!
Glasz DeCuir: what about art auctions? Works really for promoting arts?
Sasun Steinbeck: Hm I have never been to an SL art auction
Sasun Steinbeck: No I take that back, been to one, some time ago. Doesn't seem to be very common, that's for sure
Mariposa Upshaw: i have run 4 very successful sl art auctions
Skylarian Isachenko: We have charity auctions, but I have never been to an art auction
Sasun Steinbeck: it was a charitable event so it raised a good bit of money
Mariposa Upshaw: for charity indeed
Van Caerndow: In RL...half my sales are at auctions...of course that money all goes to charity. Would like more auctions where the artist gets half of the proceeds.
Tommy Parrott: Art auctions can be profitable:) All depends on the mood of your bidders!:) Too bad you could snd them some RL wine to perk them up! LOL
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I do see art donated to charity auctions, I guess that counts
synergistic Merryman: Tommy - Sasun - would it be ok to rez an example of how we protect our work - maybe seeing would help?
Sasun Steinbeck: LOL Tommy
Sasun Steinbeck: yes please synergistic
Davideo Zelnik: yes ty
Tommy Parrott: Love to take a look ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: Of course there is one more catagory of art that is usually over looked and taht is the art of avatars, there are some makers whose work is pure art.
Van Caerndow: gotta run....Thank you.
Tommy Parrott: Behind door #!....
Sasun Steinbeck: excellent Mariposa, maybe you could write up a short summary of the experience and what made the auction successful and I can include that in the chat log
Tommy Parrott: LOL!
Elese Faulkes: Sky I have to agree..I havent doe hardly anything like that ever but thoughroughly love veiwing it :)
Tommy Parrott: Nice deep watermark ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: Its what keeps the Isle of Wyrms running, as all expenses are paid from the sale of the avatars.
Elese Faulkes: lol
Mariposa Upshaw: that would be a pleasure Sasun...the last one raised over 350,000 L for two in world charitable sims :)
Sasun Steinbeck: O.O
Sasun Steinbeck: wow! I'd love to share what you learned from that. Excellent work
Skylarian Isachenko: The copyright is on the display piece, and not on the sold piece?
Mariposa Upshaw: ty.. the sims that got the proceeds were VAI, Virtual Abilities Inc. and the Dreams sims
Mars Lake: Such watermarks bug me, personally I don;t support them. But everyone can do as they will.
Sasun Steinbeck: If you want to write up something lengthier I'd post it in my blog
Glasz DeCuir: impressive Mariposa
synergistic Merryman: We have found that protects the work fairly well - smiles
Sasun Steinbeck: the good thing is that it does foil the snapshotters
Cogito Ultsch: but you're not selling it iwht that showing, are you?
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe if it's just as subtle as possible... so you can still view the work, but stop the snapshotters that would be effective
Mariposa Upshaw: all from art.. all donated art.. 2d, sculpture and sl photography :) anyway, i will follow up with you Sasun, back to the regularly schedule program
Tommy Parrott: I presume this is for the display models only? :)
Sasun Steinbeck: great!
synergistic Merryman: We put an uncopyrighted copy in the contents and sell the content.
Sasun Steinbeck: is that overlaid on top or did you watermark it right on the texture? that will stop the texture thieves too
Sasun Steinbeck: if you did the latter
Tommy Parrott: :) So the final product is sans the watermark ;)
Elese Faulkes: its in the textue itslf
Cogito Ultsch: so someone can then still "get" is from the buyer's place
Sasun Steinbeck: great
Elise Benusconi: Thank you for putting together this event, Sasun and Tommy! :-) See you all soon!
synergistic Merryman: I put the watermark right into the texture
Tommy Parrott: TC Elise!
Elese Faulkes: bye Elise :)
Strider Messmer: I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IT THE APPROPRIATE TIME BUT I WANT TO LET AS MANY OF YOU KNOW AS POSSIBLE THAT I OFFER FREE SPACE HERE FOR TEMPORARY DISPLAYS OF YOUR WORK. ALL PROFITS ARE YOURS TO KEEP. NO COMMISSIONS. IF INTERESTED PLEASE CONTACT ME OR GLASZ DECUIR FOR DETAILS
Seoreh Voight: bye Elise
Skylarian Isachenko: In theory you could put a digital watermark in the texture, such as digimark, not sure how it would translate though.
Skylarian Isachenko: cannot search sl with digimark
synergistic Merryman: Will take that up now
Davideo Zelnik: my conflict with auctions is the paradox that those buyers might not buy direct from artists when not auction art
Sasun Steinbeck: Yeah when you upload a texture into SL it is recompressed... I wonder if that woud spoil a digital watermark?
Elese Faulkes: its not our first choice ay of showing our work either Mars...but after having friends have theirwork stolen, we felt we neded to do somethng :
Elese Faulkes: :(
Sasun Steinbeck: I guess you could find out easily enough by upoading then saving your texture back to your HD and see if the digital watermark is still there
synergistic Merryman: WE upload high textures for our work and that way they stay nice when SL compresses them
Mariposa Upshaw: Davideo, I usually solicit art from artists i have already shown as a curator.. i am familiar with them and their work and their work has been seen and set for sale at the galleries/museums where i curate.. its a win win situation.. karma comes full circle
Mars Lake: nods, it's a hard personal choice I wresteld with
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea Mariposa
Tommy Parrott: I have my own watermark, it takes a certain filter in PS to make it stand out, it is not predominate, but, with the righ combination of settings, clearly can bring the mark out ;)
Sandflea Lorefield: i do apologize, but may i ask a question on another topic?
Skylarian Isachenko: All of my art has a note card in it about my work too, so its always there
Davideo Zelnik: excellent reply, Mari... something to think about
Elese Faulkes: how do you achieve that sky?
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes I'm always so surprised to see low quality, low rez textures uploaded and sold in galleries... I have to wonder, did they just not look at the results very carefully, or just not aware of what a texture size even *is*, or what?
Tommy Parrott: LOL ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: Sandflea, its an open converastion
Skylarian Isachenko: ask your question
synergistic Merryman: I would like to hear Sand's question - smiles
Mars Lake: There are plenty that download from web, upload to sl, then sell, with no care for the art or how it looks
Sasun Steinbeck: \o/
Sandflea Lorefield: i don't want to inturrupt if everyone is committed to watermarks and IP. :)
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Mars very true
Skylarian Isachenko: I just place a notecard in the contents of the prim, I use scripted frames
Tommy Parrott: I had to make up an info sheet for new resis, so that they could be shown step by step how to create prim art in SL; saved me a lot of time ;)
Skylarian Isachenko: take out the note and you break the frame
Sasun Steinbeck: very good idea
Elese Faulkes: arrr....simply yet effective :)
synergistic Merryman: Sand - all questions and comments are appreciated I am sure
Sasun Steinbeck: indeed
Sandflea Lorefield: ty.
Sasun Steinbeck: did we miss any questions? Please re-ask if we did
Mars Lake: Mine are no-mod, so the notecard can;t be removed, all artwork sizing etc is scripted
Sandflea Lorefield: well, i was curious about the desirability of frames. does anyone know if they generate more sales?
Sasun Steinbeck: Good question!
Mariposa Upshaw: ty sasun and tommy for your time and sharing your knowledge :)
Sandflea Lorefield: ty
Tommy Parrott: My pleasure;)
Skylarian Isachenko: I like the ones I use, as they control the aspect ratio of the iamge so you cannot distort it
Sasun Steinbeck: 90% of the art I've bought is unframed. I love frames - unless I'm stuck with an ugly one chosen by the seller :\
Sandflea Lorefield: are they commercial Sky?
synergistic Merryman: I think a nicely framed piece of artwork draws more attention myself
Skylarian Isachenko: sales or not I will not sell with out them
synergistic Merryman: But that is a personal opinion
Skylarian Isachenko: they are actually I will send you a link later
Skylarian Isachenko: have to dig it out
Strider Messmer: I would think that framed art is more commercial to most buyers?
Skylarian Isachenko: :D
Sasun Steinbeck: I agree, in this age of sculptie frames you can keep the prim counts way down and still have a nice looking frame
Sandflea Lorefield: the balance for some of us is prims vs. presentation
Sasun Steinbeck: I've seen just a few good ones you can buy for resale. Full perm
Sasun Steinbeck: adding a frame takes it from 1 prim to 2, so not bad at all
Sandflea Lorefield: no, not too bad.
Strider Messmer: Q: has anyone every created their art as part of a performance before an audience?
synergistic Merryman: Ummm - well - one can at the frame to the texture before uploading - but then it is permanent
synergistic Merryman: Stays 1 prim that way
Sandflea Lorefield: yes. looks good tho!
Sasun Steinbeck: hm true
Tommy Parrott: I have my full perm frames for curators/gallery owners; single prim, and they sell fairly well; so, there is a desire for frames for sure; just finding the good ones is the hard part ;) lol
Sandflea Lorefield: yes, and what fits in your gallery may not fit the client's hom, so i sell without frames
Tommy Parrott: Cater to all ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: What about promoting your gallery via events, does anyone have any tips they'd like to share? I admit I don't have anywhere near as much experience with Tommy in this area, so I'd love to hear your thoughts Tommy :) I found it pretty difficult learning the ropes to putting on a decent gallery showing/event
Tommy Parrott: That is a successful gallery ;) Money or not; if you make people happy, and they bring more; then you have done your job;) Cant get them to buy (although, sometime you can ;)
synergistic Merryman: The thing is - if you add a frame to the the texture - and then allow modify - the frame can be expanded out of sight and they can add what ever frame of their own they might like - but that brings up the question of the modify permission and if it is good to allow modify?
Tommy Parrott: It is a necessity to have an event running for your gallery, not a classifed type worder ad, but an event letting people know you have something for them to come and explore ;) Events really help keep The Grand Gallery going ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: syn I insist on having either 1) modify or 2) a resizer script in all art I buy, so I can fit it into the space I have available
Sasun Steinbeck: Yes you do put on a lot of events
Sasun Steinbeck: How do you make an event successful and get good attendance?
synergistic Merryman: Sasun - I agree with your thinking on the modify issue
Sasun Steinbeck: I would of course recommend a gallery owner join the Art & Artist Network that I help moderate to advertise there! And the SL event listings too
synergistic Merryman: About events - the way Elese and I usually organize our events is through invites to friens and make it a party - but then Elese and I were hosts and dancers at clubs for a while and have long lists of friends as a result
Strider Messmer: Is that in SL search? the network?
Tommy Parrott: That is a hard call ;) I ust the event to draw people to come look at new artisans, I may rehash an older artisan, but, generally, our events are just a way of getting art lovers to one place at one time:) We place one event daily for the gallery fairly consistantly:)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'd be glad to add anyone interested, just let me know via an IM please.
Sasun Steinbeck: but yes it is in search
Tommy Parrott: Syn; see, you hanve merged your prior skills together, and made a great match ;)
Tommy Parrott: That is one way of being successful; merging your other skills to make another happen ;) ;)
synergistic Merryman: Well - I have to thank Elese for her common interest in art with me and her desire to display artwork - that gave birth to our gallery in the first place - originally came to SL for fun and socializing!
Elese Faulkes: awww bless you :)
Skylarian Isachenko: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I've always wondered if advertising a gallery in one of the many SL magazines has ever been successful. Probably very tough to measure unless you keep a close eye on gallery traffic before and after the ad runs...
Skylarian Isachenko: Seems to happen that way a lot, I got dragged into SL by a dear friend,
Sasun Steinbeck: haha excellent Elese :)
Apollo Reinard: cu everyone. nice meeting otheres with similar goals. :))
Tommy Parrott: Yes;) A lot of data to keep track of and hash thru ;)
Sandflea Lorefield: perhaps you could key the ad to a freebie
Davideo Zelnik: say more about SL magazines?
Cogito Ultsch: and ty for the great discussion :)
Skylarian Isachenko: ummmm I can say taht an article about ou hels, but no ide bout an ad
Tommy Parrott: Ok folks, time's about up:) We would like to thank you for coming to this meeting, and hope you will stay for the festivities that follow musically for your sonic pleasure ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: Thank you so much for coming everyone
Skylarian Isachenko: We deeply appricate the opportunity
Sasun Steinbeck: I will make the chat log available on the Art Gallery Owners group
Skylarian Isachenko: was very informative
Sasun Steinbeck: and if you would like a copy just IM me
Davideo Zelnik: its been great! Thank you :)
Elese Faulkes: Thank you both very uch...as always I get so much from meeting evryone and learing new ideas..thanks
synergistic Merryman: I think these meeting can be extremely beneficial for all of us - Tommy and Sasun - thank you ever so much for how you support and offer these events - smiles
Tommy Parrott: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Thanks for your ideas and thoughts! That will be very helpful to the many people that read the chat log
Strider Messmer: EVERYONE PLEASE JOIN ME IN THANKING TOMMY AND SASUN FOR THEIR GREAT DISCUSSION
Elese Faulkes: Sasun....will you be doing the resize script in the group today?.I am keen to playwith it..lo
Strider Messmer: AND THANK YOURSELF FOR ALL YOUR REALLY USEFUL INPUT
Sasun Steinbeck: my pleasure synergistic, love the art community and am so glad to help keep it alive and growing :)
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I sure will Else!
Elese Faulkes: Goodie..and thanks so much :D
Tommy Parrott: ao on
Elese Faulkes: sky..may I ask you a question?
Sasun Steinbeck: Thanks Strider and Glasz for making this session happen!!
Skylarian Isachenko: sure
Sandflea Lorefield: :)
Ernst Maven: thank you very much!!!!
Seoreh Voight: thank you both Tommy and Sasun. :)
Strider Messmer: AND IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN A TEMP EXHIBIT HERE IN CANAL PLACE, PLEASE CONTACT ME FOR DETAILS
Sasun Steinbeck: stay for the music too!
Glasz DeCuir: Thanks all you for comming and participate :)
Elese Faulkes: at the IOW...where is the artwork...I most likely just walked by it knowig me but I didnt see it at all
Skylarian Isachenko: Part of my job is answering questons
Elese Faulkes: I would love to go back and check it out properly
Skylarian Isachenko: generally its the Avatars though we ahve some here and there hanging around
Elese Faulkes: I saw two amaing dragons
Skylarian Isachenko: If,
Elese Faulkes: amazing*
synergistic Merryman: This has been great guys
Skylarian Isachenko: lag allows
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I really enjoyed this!
Ernst Maven: thanks again, goodbye to all!!!!
Tommy Parrott: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Lots of good ideas
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you all! mwah!
Elese Faulkes: bye bye Ernst :)
synergistic Merryman: Thank you again - ever so much
Seoreh Voight: I learned a lot, ty
Sasun Steinbeck: good good!
Friday, December 4, 2009
I have added a neat feature to the Gallery Tour HUD. There is a new button named "Events" on the HUD menu that gives you two choices: Current event info in progress, or upcoming events on the current sim. Only Arts & Culture events are searched. Also, when someone teleports to a new location, the HUD will automatically look up event information, and if there are any upcoming events in the local sim, they will be shown to the HUD user! That way they will be more aware of any advertised events at your gallery if they land there with the HUD on (or anywhere else on the sim). Give it a go and let me know what you think - you can query the normal events listings for Arts & Culture, find something happening soon, and just teleport to that event and see how the HUD notifies you of that event.
This was pretty tough to implement since there is no official interface to the event listings from an LSL script. Please consider this an experimental feature.
Please be sure to take a moment and stick your upcoming gallery events in the LL event listings when you schedule an event so that they show up for HUD users. Hopefully this will help make people more aware of upcoming gallery events as they travel around with the tour HUD!
Thursday, December 3, 2009
I have made some edits to the log below. Anything I added is in [square brackets].
Mar Dwi: Hello everyone, welcome at the SL Art Community Centre
Sasun Steinbeck: Hi Indigo :)
Mar Dwi: we're all gathering here for a lecture and discussion on the galleries of SL kiosk system
Indigo Mertel: Hi Sasun :)
Zotarah Shepherd: Is this in Voice
Mar Dwi: it will be in text chat
Zotarah Shepherd whispers: Thank you
Indigo Mertel: Hi Ali :)
Sasun Steinbeck: That way we can have a record that people can read for many years :)
Alizarin Goldflake: Hi Indigo :)
Cogito Ultsch: are you going to post the chat transcript soewhere in case any of us should crash - not that that is really likely in sl (grin)
Mar Dwi: before we start, I'd like to tell you all about Seba Sideway's plan to perform live in galleries and museums in SL exclusively for the month December.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Cogito! I'll post it on my blog and send out a link
Mar Dwi: Seba has a huge amount of fans in SL and his tour of galleries in SL is a great way to promote our galleries to a larger audience
Mar Dwi: if you're interested, send me or Seba Sideways an IM
Sasun Steinbeck: Seba is awesome, if you haven't seen him perform. Thumbs up from me.
Mar Dwi accepted your inventory offer.
Cogito Ultsch: ty sasun :)
Mar Dwi: Someone else who is doing a great job at promoting art in SL is Sasun. Ammong other things, she is the designer of the galleries of SL kiosk system and tour HUD.
Mar Dwi: I am very happy that she's here today to talk about this system
Sasun Steinbeck smiles
Indigo Mertel: kudos to Sasun
Mar Dwi: so, plelase turn off your mobile phones and IMs and RL and HUDS and whatever
Sasun Steinbeck: haha :)
Mar Dwi: and welcome Sasun
Whisper Fearne: LOL
Juko Tempel: .-'`'-. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE .-'`'-.
Jaime Poutine: turn off RL.. if only
Indigo Mertel: Applause!!!
Sasun Steinbeck: yes please remove those uber laggy scripted attachments :)
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Mar! And for making these talks happen and convincing me to get out of bed to be here :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I will be posting the chat log to this event on my blog and sending a link to the Art Gallery Owner's group
Sasun Steinbeck: I also have a subscriber group if you don't want to use a group slot
Sasun Steinbeck: Mar's gallery kiosk is behind me, you can click on the subscribe now button to join the group
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm going to assume that most of you are familiar with the system, but I want you to feel free to ask any questions about it as we go
Sasun Steinbeck: I'll give you a quick rundown of what it is and how it works
Sasun Steinbeck: The goal of the system is fairly specific - to help art lovers find all the amazing art galleries in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: To do that, I wanted to make a list of galleries that wasn't insanely difficult to maintain - it had to be accurate and up to date
Sasun Steinbeck: as it grew, I kept automating more and more of the system
Sasun Steinbeck: so now it is really not much work on my part day-to-day to keep it running
Sasun Steinbeck: gallery owners configure the !User Settings card inside the kiosk and all that information is fed to my website
Sasun Steinbeck: really most of the code in the system is online, doing all the magic behind the list that you see at http://sasun.info/artgalleriesofsl.aspx
Sasun Steinbeck: Some time ago I implemented the gallery rating system as well as the subscriber system, so now I have the ability to message people just like a subscribe-o-matic system does
Sasun Steinbeck: the gallery rating system is something I'd like to get some feedback on from you guys
Sasun Steinbeck: and I'd love to hear your thoughts on what kinds of things I can do to help achieve this goal of getting art lovers more connected with all the galleries in SL
Sasun Steinbeck: really just having a list of locations is just one part of the puzzle
Sasun Steinbeck: If you haven't seen the list online lately, you should take a look
Sasun Steinbeck: it has a whole new look with the thumbnails of all the textures that the gallery owners stick into their kiosks
Sasun Steinbeck: The tour HUD is another way I'm using to get more people into more gallerires
Sasun Steinbeck: the HUD is connected directly to my online database, so it's always up to date and accurate
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing that the HUD supports that I have actually never done is that I could easily lead some group tours
Sasun Steinbeck: so that may be one idea I'd like to explore in the future is doing some group tours
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe we could take a certain category or art style and make a tour out of it
Sasun Steinbeck: I've been making a lot of improvements to the website, just last night I added a new checkbox above the Filter box there
Indigo Mertel: nice idea
Sasun Steinbeck: the filter box is relatively new too, it let's you quickly find a gallery by name, contact name, or sim name
Sasun Steinbeck: and there is a new "View" dropdown to let you choose between the old view and the new thumbnail view
Sasun Steinbeck: the goal is to make the website as usable as possible for people to encourage them to click those slurls and go!
Indigo Mertel: the new thumbnail view looks great, Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you :)
Sasun Steinbeck: One thing I'd love to get feedback on is the rating system
Juko Tempel: would be nice to have examples next to the Filter box..
Sasun Steinbeck: ah ok for example
Sasun Steinbeck: type in Juko in that box and click Filter
Juko Tempel smiles
Sasun Steinbeck: and you can easily find your gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: or type in Artropolis and you can find all the galleries on that sim
Juko Tempel nods.. not sure everyone would realise what could go in there..
Sasun Steinbeck: If you hover your cursor over that little box it tells you
Sasun Steinbeck: but you are right it's not immediately obvious
Juko Tempel: so it does :-0
Juko Tempel: so more descriptive keywords are a possibility in future?
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm always looking for ways to improve everything - I'm no professional website designer! :)
Sasun Steinbeck: hm that's possible, yes
Cogito Ultsch: you've done a LOT of work on this - i'm very impresses, Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm not sure what else to search other than gallery name, contact name, and sim name...
Second Renoir: yes me to
Alizarin Goldflake: type of art maybe?
Juko Tempel: art genre?
Cogito Ultsch: so - the style?
Second Renoir: yes
Cogito Ultsch: lol
Cogito Ultsch: yes
Sasun Steinbeck: I am using it as a fun way to learn asp.net and C# programming and I have learned a lot, let me tell you
Indigo Mertel: Sasun did a great job, on the level of a pro developer... I can attest that
Juko Tempel: we would have to supply them in the User Settings?
Sasun Steinbeck: this stuff is not easy lol
Second Renoir: for instance if you look for installations
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea Alizarin, but that's right, that info just isn't available
Sasun Steinbeck: I am really trying to make the kiosk config as simple as possible
Juko Tempel nods
Cogito Ultsch: featured artists maybe?
Juko Tempel: so why are the ratings useful Sasun? are they being gamed?
Mar Dwi: oh that would be so cool, featured artists on the website
Sasun Steinbeck: so adding a new setting for people to configure is something I want to avoid unless there's a really good reason
Sasun Steinbeck: hm interesting idea, if you notice, I have my very first ad banner at the top
Sasun Steinbeck: for Second Nights
Sasun Steinbeck: I could use that space to feature an artist, that's possible
Sasun Steinbeck: make it a rotating ad banner
Sasun Steinbeck: yes let's talk about the ratings for a bit
Sasun Steinbeck: So the goal of the ratings is pretty specific
Sasun Steinbeck: it's nothing more than a popular vote
Sasun Steinbeck: think amazon.com for those of you in the USA
Sasun Steinbeck: you can look up any book and rate it by clicking the gold stars
Sasun Steinbeck: but that's not the same thing as a critical review
Sasun Steinbeck: The ratings does not pretend to be anything like that, and really that's one gap I have not filled
Juko Tempel: comments are the next step..
Sasun Steinbeck: we've got the popular vote, though we need *more* of those, but I don't really have any peer review or critical review
Sasun Steinbeck: oh yes the comments too, I've made those much more visible on the new default view
Juko Tempel nods
Sasun Steinbeck: So just like your amazon.com reviews, those are very helpful too
Sasun Steinbeck: depending on the quality of the comments lol
Indigo Mertel: Sasun, it would be nice if we could add posters to promote the galleries rather than art only as it is now
Sasun Steinbeck: tell me what you mean?
Indigo Mertel: right now you have cycling posters on the kiosks
Sasun Steinbeck: oh yes
Sasun Steinbeck: I get it
Indigo Mertel: only art is displayed
Indigo Mertel: it would be nice if we could have a poster promoting the gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: so right now, if an artist wants to show their art ON the kiosk, they need to supply me with a 512x512 texture, and I drop it into the kiosk server
Sasun Steinbeck: so that puts it on rotation to be shown on the kiosk display
Indigo Mertel: nods
Sasun Steinbeck: the problem I am worried about with doing advertising is that I'm afraid that gallery owners might not want an ad for another gallery in front of their gallerly
Alizarin Goldflake: so Indigo could give you a pic of her gallery instead?
Juko Tempel nods
Cogito Ultsch: good point
Indigo Mertel: nods
Juko Tempel: i agree
Alizarin Goldflake: mmm
Sasun Steinbeck: the original goal was to make the kiosks attractive and beautiful
Second Renoir: me to
Sasun Steinbeck: so I really just want art to display on there
lala Lightfoot: true, but I often put other gallery's posters near my gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm afraid that ads are just not as pleasing to the eye as a beautiful piece of art by a real SL artist
Sasun Steinbeck: yes true lala
Sisi Biedermann: where do you get the art to put on the posters?
Second Renoir: right
Sasun Steinbeck: I want people to go over to the kiosk and click it
Mar Dwi: I wouldn't mind displaying posters of other galleries on the kiosk. But I would want to be able to controll which galleries are promoted here
Sasun Steinbeck: you have to submit a 512x512 texture to me, full perm
Sasun Steinbeck: you can click your kiosk and click Help to get full details
Indigo Mertel: we would expect art galleries to make artistic promotional posters ;)
Sasun Steinbeck: there are some requirements you should read about on the Help card for that texture
Sasun Steinbeck: haha yes Indigo
Alizarin Goldflake: Sasun, am I right that only one kiosk can be rezzed on a gallery's land?
Sasun Steinbeck: yay click click
Sasun Steinbeck: yes the limitation is one kiosk per person, per parcel
Alizarin Goldflake: i have 6 locations and never know where to put the kiosk
[Sasun Steinbeck: the reason is that kiosks are stored in the database by object key. When you pick up a kiosk and re-rez it, it gets a new key, and therefore registers itself as a new kiosk in the database, so you'll now have two kiosks in the database but only one really exists. My system will automatically merge two separate kiosks database entries on the same parcel, on the assumption that one is replacing the other, which means less work for me cleaning up all these "missing" kiosks that have a database entry but no actual kiosk.]
Mary Wickentower: so if you have art in more than one loaction, you can only join for one of those locations?
Alizarin Goldflake: i put it where i THINK gets the most traffic
Sasun Steinbeck: no it's per parcel, per avatar
Sisi Biedermann: I have 3 locations and one kiosk on each one
Sasun Steinbeck: so if you have two people with two kiosks on one parcel, no problem
lala Lightfoot: same here
EdwardIV Beaumont: Susan....about the rating system....has it been getting a sufficent response ....Do vistors take the time to rate a gallery.....does your stats show you it is worth your effort or is it still early days yet....like your group tour idea ....
lala Lightfoot: I have 3 kiosks
lala Lightfoot: (I think :)
Sasun Steinbeck: if you have one kiosk of yours on one parcel and another on another parcel, no problem
Sasun Steinbeck: and if someone needs to have multiple kiosks on one parcel, I can give you one that will work just fine
Alizarin Goldflake: i always forget to rate places, including forgetting to ask people to rate me
Sasun Steinbeck: that is a good point
Sasun Steinbeck: EdwardIV/ Alizarin, I have been thinking about that
Zotarah Shepherd: How do we get a Kiosk?
Sasun Steinbeck: really for the rating system to be useful, we need to have a critical mass of ratings
Sasun Steinbeck: I can give you one or you can look in my picks for a location to go pick one up
Sasun Steinbeck: and for 1L on XstreetSL :)
Alizarin Goldflake: perhaps we should organize a rate-this-gallery tour ? :))
Mary Wickentower: I have art on my own parcel and in shops on other pples parcels, can I put a kiosk in each place, even tho they will be in my name?
Indigo Mertel: hehe :)
Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks
Zotarah Shepherd accepted your inventory offer.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes you sure can
Sasun Steinbeck: since they are separate parcels, no problem
Sasun Steinbeck: as long as you can rez things on their parcel :)
Sasun Steinbeck: the problem I've noticed is that the kiosks are usually placed near the gallery entrance
Sasun Steinbeck: which makes sense because the published URL for that gallery is 2m in front of the kiosk
Sasun Steinbeck: unless you have a fixed landing point
Sasun Steinbeck: so... people come in, they work their way to the rear of the gallery, and leave
Sasun Steinbeck: they don't go back and rate
Sasun Steinbeck: so I've created a super simple remote rating station
Lacosadivina Quintessa: good idea
Sisi Biedermann: :o)
Indigo Mertel snatches one
Stephanie Helstein: :)
Mar Dwi: if you want to rate the SLACC, yo ucan use the other rating station
Sasun Steinbeck: what you can do is set this up anywhere on the SAME parcel that your kiosk is on
Sasun Steinbeck: you can actually rate the SLACC right now with this :)
Juko Tempel: Sasun.. i'm still not sure why the ratings are worth doing?
Mar Dwi: I hope you're not all rating me 1 star
Alizarin Goldflake: how about making a vendor for it?
Sasun Steinbeck: hahaha Mar :)
Sasun Steinbeck: so the concepet here is that you can put these anywhere
Sasun Steinbeck: it's full perm
Alizarin Goldflake: can we put out more than one per parcel?
Sasun Steinbeck: you may edit it, unlink it, delete all the prims except for the one with the stars on it if you want
Sasun Steinbeck: so you can strip it down to 1 prim
Sasun Steinbeck: yes as many as you want
Alizarin Goldflake: woot!!
Sasun Steinbeck: so put one near every "exit" in your gallery
Alizarin Goldflake: that will help Sasun
Indigo Mertel: nice design
Alizarin Goldflake: it will remind people to vote
Sasun Steinbeck: I hope this helps, yes!
Alizarin Goldflake: including me :))
Second Renoir: ok but what good is it
Sasun Steinbeck: One of the best ways to get more traffic from my website, and the tour HUD, is to get yourself as high as possible on the list
Sasun Steinbeck: The FIRST thing you should do is rate your own gallery 5 stars!
Second Renoir: ahh always compitition
Alizarin Goldflake: how do non-artists find out about your web site?
Indigo Mertel: of course :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm surprised how many gallery owners don't rate themselves [yes it is in the instructions to do that], even with quite a few reminders I send to owners that have kiosks with no ratings :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I have made a few other changes that I'd like your thoughts on
Sasun Steinbeck: one, the rating sorting order
Alizarin Goldflake: sasun, how do non-artists find out about your web site?
Sasun Steinbeck: I think the primary way is via links from other blogs, and also on the top of all the kiosks is a link directly to the website
Sasun Steinbeck: the primary sort is by the average rating
Sasun Steinbeck: so everyone with a perfect 5.0 bubbles to the top
Tour Spoonhammer: this is a ratingsystem, that About this ratingsystem..what will it tell?
Tour Spoonhammer: couldn't it be missused?
Sasun Steinbeck: the secondary sort has changed recently
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I'll address that
Alizarin Goldflake: how does one put a link to your web site on her blog?
Sasun Steinbeck: the secondary sort is now by NUMBER of votes
Alizarin Goldflake: yes that is a good idea
Indigo Mertel: indeed
Sasun Steinbeck: so the galleries that have the same exact rating as someone else, if you have more votes, you get bumped to the top
Sasun Steinbeck: now realistically this only makes a difference for the big batch of galleries that have a perfect 5.0
Sasun Steinbeck: and there are a lot of them
Sasun Steinbeck: since many of them have only 1 or 2 votes
Luka Dayafter: Can owners of this kiosk's vote for its gallery? And is it limited voting (maybe like 1 vote per day with 1 account?)
Sisi Biedermann: Can I place more that one rater in a gallery?
Sasun Steinbeck: Alizarin, it depends on the blog, I don't have a simple answer, but every blog system around let's you link to other blogs pretty easily or to websites like the gallery list
Sasun Steinbeck: yes you can Sisi
Sisi Biedermann: great
Sasun Steinbeck: so let me address abuse
Sasun Steinbeck: one avatar is only allowed one rating to be given at each gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: you can click the stars as many times as you like, but only your last vote is saved [one avatar is allowed ONE vote, which you can update, per gallery]
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like to have a kiosk at my educational site with Galleries listed by the type of art. Is it possible to have one like that? For now I am just making a Notecard with LMs.
Sasun Steinbeck: this stops abuse by people clicking a thousand times
Second Renoir: but people does they care they just looking around eventually bying some art for their homes
Luka Dayafter: indeed this is good :)
Sasun Steinbeck: Zotarah, I have a special version of the kiosk called the "infohub"
Sasun Steinbeck: it doesn't require any configuration at all, and doesn't add the location to the list - it just gives out the list
Tour Spoonhammer: but nothing stops me to ask any one..even pay them to use the ratesystem..even if they don't even look into the galleryt?
Sasun Steinbeck: so someone can just ask me for the infohub style and I'd be glad to supply it
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Tour there is potential for abuse like that
Stephanie Helstein: tour, nobody can read the mind of the person voting to see what their motivation is
Sasun Steinbeck: It's hard to tell ilf people are "cheating" the system, the most common thing I notice is alt voting. but then again, that may account for just one or two extra votes
Mary Wickentower: people can add comments in the rating system but not directly on the blog, correct?
[Yes mary, you cannot rate or add comments on the website, it must be done in-world]
Juko Tempel: so some people do like the ratings system? you think it is useful?
Tour Spoonhammer: I know that.. I just se a risk that you cam abuse the system..and then what is the rating good for
Zotarah Shepherd: I would like my students to have that and people who come to the Art part of my sim. The more people understand art the more likely they are to buy it in SL and in RL.
Cogito Ultsch: lol - how do you know whether someone is voting with alts?
[Sometimes it can be very obvious, they have the same first or last name as the gallery owner :) But I just can't make any assumptions and do not delete votes for that reason]
Sasun Steinbeck: I noticed one gallery owner covered up stars 1-4 so you could ONLY click star 5!!
Alizarin Goldflake: hahahaha!
Stephanie Helstein: lol
Doran Forzane: lol
Sasun Steinbeck: all of those ratings were deleted when I found out :)
Sisi Biedermann: good idea - haha
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah that was NOT good lol
Cogito Ultsch: lol
Indigo Mertel: gee...
Sisi Biedermann: lol
Zotarah Shepherd: Is there an Art Publication that gives Critical Reviews in SL?
Sasun Steinbeck: Zotarah great question
Zotarah Shepherd: There should be I think.
Sasun Steinbeck: Art Market was trying to tackle that problem
Alizarin Goldflake: the Artmarket report used to
Sasun Steinbeck: he was publishing a magazine that was filling that gap
Sasun Steinbeck: but sadly it's really still a big hole that I see
Alizarin Goldflake: but nothing new on it lately
Sasun Steinbeck: I got some great feedback from someone that did not like the ratings system
Sasun Steinbeck: good question on whether people like it, I have not really done any kind of survey to find out what gallery visitors think of it
Sasun Steinbeck: the negative feedback I got was related to what I mentioned earlier about this being strictly a popular vote [and not fulfilling the need for critical/peer review]
Tour Spoonhammer: I will not say I don't like the rating and hope that mostly it will be just fine
Sasun Steinbeck: I think there is still a big need for critical review
Sasun Steinbeck: one idea came up that I'm mulling over [suggested by DanCoyote Antonelli]
Mar Dwi: The problem I have with the way the galleries are listed by rating is that a gallery with 1 or 2 five star votes, is listed above a gallery with 20 votes of an average of 4.5 votes
Sasun Steinbeck: yes exactly Mar!
Sasun Steinbeck: and I've been pondering that
Sasun Steinbeck: the idea that came up is interesting - tell me what you think - what if we had a small, specialist team of peer reviewers, going around writing short but good critical peer reviews
Mary Wickentower: if you unlink the rater and relink it to make it smaller, do you damage any scripts or have to make any specific prim the prime prim?
[Yes, you can unlink the special rating kiosk, you really only need the one prim with the stars on it]
Luka Dayafter: there is also a problem... for example I go to every gallery and put 1 point for them to list my gallery on rank of galleries
Sasun Steinbeck: and I could tag them as "trusted" reviewers in my system
Sasun Steinbeck: perhaps make their reviews show up in a different color to really highlight them
Alizarin Goldflake: wow i think that is a good idea!
Juko Tempel nods.. i think that would be more useful than ratings..
Doran Forzane: Sas, that would work. The only comment I would say is that if a gallery owner is a reviewer they cannot review galleries they either own or are associated with
Sasun Steinbeck: that might fulfill that need for something other than a purely popular vote
Xe Namiboo: I think it's a great idea!
Indigo Mertel: like amazon.com
Sasun Steinbeck: exactly
Sasun Steinbeck: they are highlighted as special reviews on amazon
Sasun Steinbeck: I like that idea a lot
Alizarin Goldflake: i could suggest some names
Second Renoir: nice
Sasun Steinbeck: yes definitely, there are some great prospects
Sasun Steinbeck: maybe instead of a small group of roving reviewers, there can be some kind of selection criteria/committee for a "trusted reviewer" status
Mar Dwi: what qualifications should a trusted reviewer have?
Sasun Steinbeck: great question!
Indigo Mertel: erm...
Sisi Biedermann: wow
Second Renoir: Mar could be one
Juko Tempel: or flaming..
Sasun Steinbeck: Luka good point
Sasun Steinbeck: someone *could* be lame and just go around rating everyone 1 star
Luka Dayafter: indeed
Sasun Steinbeck: what I do is once in a while browse through all the ratings
Sasun Steinbeck: looking for crap, or garbage ratings
Sasun Steinbeck: and if someone is doing that, I hope to spot them
[I have recently looked at the average number of stars by all the reviewers, and there are no cases of "1 star" griefing that I could see.]
Sasun Steinbeck: I would delete anything that I can determine to be some kind of abuse like that
Sasun Steinbeck: such as the gallery owner hiding stars 1-4, that's how I spotted that
Sasun Steinbeck: the real problem is that everyone rates galleries 5 stars!
Mary Wickentower: do you have any recourse to remove a rating if you suspect it is another avenue for a griefer?
Sasun Steinbeck: we have a disproportionate number of galleries with all 5 star ratings
Sasun Steinbeck: yes I do Mary
Sasun Steinbeck: and if you suspect something bad is going on please let me know
Sasun Steinbeck: griefing is a possibility
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I really hope is that once you have a higher number of votes, the occasional bad rating won't make that much of a difference [in the average]
Sasun Steinbeck: not everyone will love your art
Mary Wickentower: I have to close my art group because of griefer attack in the group
Mary Wickentower: *had
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah griefers will always exist
Zotarah Shepherd: The ratings system could be a popularity contest rather than a guide to the best art galleries.
Sasun Steinbeck: so far I have not found many cases of outright abuse at all
Sasun Steinbeck: it is ONLY a popularity contest
Sasun Steinbeck: which is why we need to fill that gap with some alternate information like critical reviews
Sasun Steinbeck: it is not really the *best* guide to the best art, I readily admit
Sasun Steinbeck: it is just which ones are most popular by the visitors
Luka Dayafter: My personal opinion is that you Sasun as creator of this amazing group choose group of people who will value galleries on ranking scale than mix those votes with public opinion
Sasun Steinbeck: and I realized it wouldn't be anything more than that when it was created, and it's still growing, so we need to address those gaps in the future
Doran Forzane: Sasun, I can chat with Unberto to see if BOSL would be happy to facilitate a critical review as part of their magazine
Luka Dayafter: so half experties half public
Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you Sasun this is very interesting. I have another meeting. Please everyone feel free to IM me about my educational Art Grotto on Ralanora.
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Luka I'm definitely considering something like that
Zotarah Shepherd waves
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Zotarah
Sasun Steinbeck: woops yes it is 2pm already so if you need to scoot to another event, feel free and thanks for coming :)
Sasun Steinbeck: before anyone goes
Alizarin Goldflake: thank YOU sasun!
Sasun Steinbeck: I don't think the one I rezzed was collecting votes for Mar's gallery
Sasun Steinbeck: let's try Mar's
Sasun Steinbeck: this is a test version of the remote voter, remember :)
Sasun Steinbeck: sorry I didn't mention that!
Second Renoir: lol
Sasun Steinbeck: the good news is that it will automatically update you if I make any changes
Sasun Steinbeck: "you" being the owner of the remote voting station
Sasun Steinbeck: ok give it a go, rate the SLACC :)
Juko Tempel: it's 'remote' in the sense of.. elsewhere in the Gallery? not at the front?
Cogito Ultsch: and the location for the main board [Galleries of SL Kiosk] is in your picks?
[Yes correct you can also click the web icon on any gallery kiosk to go to my HQ to pick up a kiosk, or check my picks]
Sasun Steinbeck: note that votes are always private, no one will see what you clicked :)
Doran Forzane: haha... mmm 5 prims..... lol Sasun, thats going to cost me 5x* at Angel
Juko Tempel: no you can strip it Doran [remove all the prims except the main one]
Sasun Steinbeck: remote as in, it must be on the same parcel as a ratings-enabled regular kiosk [but doesn't need to be near the regular kiosk]
Mar Dwi: thank you all
Juko Tempel: but can be inside for visitors after they've seen the art, right?
Sasun Steinbeck: yes absolutely
Sasun Steinbeck: anywhere you want
Mary Wickentower: is there a rater at xstreet too?
Alizarin Goldflake: thank you Sasun!
Sasun Steinbeck: Mary, no, this is a beta version
Sasun Steinbeck: you are the only people that have one now
Sasun Steinbeck: but I will put it up there eventually
Sasun Steinbeck: I may have missed your question, if I didn't answer it, please re-ask
Sasun Steinbeck: sure!
Cogito Ultsch: tyvm :)
Sasun Steinbeck: the kiosk requester will always give you the latest version of the kiosk
SpaceIO Core: ty, Sasun :-)
Sasun Steinbeck: so that's about it! I'll hang out for more questions
Sasun Steinbeck: get those rating stations out there and get more ratings, that's the best way to stay up in a good spot on the list
Mary Wickentower: is the kiosk requester the kiosk?
Sisse Singh: Thank you Sasun, goodbye all
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Mary that's it
Zena Zemlja: Sasun, I know I am late, sorry could not make it earlier, but I do have a questions and suggestion about the ratings
Indigo Mertel: great work... you know I am a fan of your kiosk system :)
Juko Tempel: thanks Sasun.. great work on the kiosks.. and critical reviews is a good development i think..
Sasun Steinbeck: sure Zena please
EdwardIV Beaumont: interesting meeting....thanks Sasun.....will drop you a notecard with feedback soon....bye all...
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Juko :)
Sasun Steinbeck: oh yes would love your thoughts
Sasun Steinbeck: write them down, send them to me later
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I didn't mention was a brand new checkbox on the website
Tour Spoonhammer: I have a quetion about this group tours..can anyone manage them...put them together?
Sasun Steinbeck: [the checbox is named] "Needs Review"
Sasun Steinbeck: that shows just the galleries that have 0 or 1 ratings
[that way people interested in helping with the ratings have a great list of galleries that really need ratings]
Sasun Steinbeck: Tour I would love to help you with that
Sasun Steinbeck: yes you could lead a tour of galleries and I have some tools to help you
Sasun Steinbeck: I actually sell a standalone tour HUD
Tour Spoonhammer: okay thanks
Sasun Steinbeck: for custom tours
Juko Tempel: art excursions :-)
Sasun Steinbeck: but if you want to drive a gallery tour/art excursion, let's talk later :)
Mary Wickentower: maybe all we members could all take turns leading a tour once a month, like a coopertive effort
Zena Zemlja: right now there are galleries listed on the website with just one vote of 5 stars on op of list, above those who have 10 or 20 votes of most 5 stars too and maybe 1 or 2 of lesser stars, there is even one gallery with about 250 votes, alsmost all of them 5 stars, maybe just a few lowerd, and it is listed on page 50, this does not seem fair to me
Second Renoir: we could all do a special christmas tour
Second Renoir: with gifts
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Zena, I've been thinking about that a lot
Indigo Mertel: I have to go.... Mar, thank you for hosting this meeting. Thank you for the very informative session, Sasun.
Indigo Mertel: bye!
Mary Wickentower: maybe all we members could all take turns leading a tour once a month, like a coopertive effort
Mar Dwi: thanks for coming Indigo, have a nice day!
Second Renoir: every gallery give something
Sasun Steinbeck: Mar mentioned that earlier, galleries with one 5.0 rating are above galleries with 100 ratings with an average of 4.99 :)
Zena Zemlja: what I would suggest is to rank the galleries in order of who has most points, not average, but counting them, like 5 votes of 4 stars would be 20 points, etc, that woudl be much more fair I think
Cogito Ultsch: ty for the great meeting
Xe Namiboo: I'd be willing to do that
Cogito Ultsch: this was fantastic information :)
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Cogito!
Luka Dayafter: alright, thanks!
Sasun Steinbeck: Zena I am strongly considering something like that
Luka Dayafter: Yes I will have to do that, thanks :)
Mary Wickentower: just a comment on the "filter" button, it might be less confusing if it was called a "search" button
[This has been changed as suggested]
Sasun Steinbeck: hmmm I like that idea
Mar Dwi: yes. I think Zena's idea is better than my idea of multiplying rates with number of ratings
Zena Zemlja: I hope so, Sasun, it will sure encourage us all to have our customers asked for more votes
Sasun Steinbeck: yes Mar, something need to be done
Sasun Steinbeck: I need to put some more thought into that
Sasun Steinbeck: one thing I should mention
Luka Dayafter: I must go now. Thank you Susan for invitation and thanks for informations. Good job!
Luka Dayafter: Bye everyone!
Sasun Steinbeck: is that the kiosks are integrated with the metaLIFE travel database
Mar Dwi: Bye Luka
Hermit Barber: If you want to change the rating scheme, then assuming that ratings are from 1-5, then assigning galleries as e^(ln(Number of Votes per Rating)*2*(Rating-3)/(5-1)) should establish a significance (number of votes * Rating) factor that would be fair.
Sasun Steinbeck: so anyone that clicks a rating star on my kiosk is automatically forwarded to the metaLIFE database
Sasun Steinbeck: so that means all the galleries are also in the metaLIFE travel database, which is awesome
Sasun Steinbeck: we flooded them with galleries lol
Hermit Barber: The downside is that that would need to be done for each vote for each gallery as new votes are received.
Second Renoir: lol
Doran Forzane: Can your kiosks be linked Sasun to ones metaLIFE account then
Sasun Steinbeck: oh Hermit thank you very much
Sasun Steinbeck: that's exactly what I need to work out, the right forumula
Stephanie Helstein: i have one
Sasun Steinbeck: no, Doran, they can't, it just forwards the parcel ratings
Doran Forzane: k
Zena Zemlja: my Igor gallery was on top long time, all 5 stars, now one lesser vote has downed it to page 28, below about hundreds of galleries with just one vote of 5 stars, which is just silly
Sasun Steinbeck: yes it isn't good the way it works right now
Second Renoir: thanks sasun and mar and all
Tour Spoonhammer: one option would be to reset all ratings every month or every third month..to keep the rating up to date
Sasun Steinbeck: but rest assured I'm going to fix it
Sasun Steinbeck: hm interesting idea
Zena Zemlja: thanks, Sasun
Hermit Barber: Tour: If doing that it would be better to establish a moving average with more significance given to newer votes.
Tour Spoonhammer: Thanks all or aninformative hour
Stephanie Helstein: i think you should explore using a bayesian rating system
Sasun Steinbeck: yes that's an interesting suggestion
Sasun Steinbeck: I'm taking all this down, don't worry :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I will Stephanie, thank you
Hermit Barber: The formula I provided is Bayensian :-P
Sasun Steinbeck: oh good!
Stephanie Helstein: :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I will do some research :)
[I have since implemented a Bayesian rating system and it is "live". The net result is that galleries with a low number of ratings are "pulled" toward the average rating, so they are no longer clogging the upper ranks of the list with single-star ratings]
Skylarian Isachenko: Will there be a log of the event, I hope?
Mary Wickentower: this info meeting is a great idea, I've learned more here than anywhere else about the kiosks, plus it makes the effort that you are putting together seem more like a community now, then an abstact list...hosting these meeting on occasion might be a good way to continue pulling this togehter as a communiyt
Sasun Steinbeck: so hopefully as this system continues to grow, I will make tweaks like this to make it better
Sasun Steinbeck: and if you have any other suggestions please let me know
Sasun Steinbeck: good idea Mary
SpaceIO Core: very nice to see you all.
Sasun Steinbeck: thank you :)
Stephanie Helstein: ty!
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks so much for coming everyone!
Xe Namiboo: ty!
Skylarian Isachenko: And I hope you had a grand thanks giving or appropriate holiday.
SpaceIO Core: thanks for great conversation, Sasun, and mar
Zena Zemlja: thank you Sasun
Sasun Steinbeck: haha and if you sent me an IM I'll get to you shortly :)
Sasun Steinbeck: I sure did thanks Sky :)
Mar Dwi: Thank you Sasun, it's been very informative and thank everyone for your input
Skylarian Isachenko: See you again I am sure.
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks again!
Sasun Steinbeck: thanks Mar for this opportunity :)
Mary Wickentower: TY Susan and MAr
Sasun Steinbeck: awesome, we didn't get bombed with lag
Mar Dwi: yes, oh that reminds me....
Stephanie Helstein: take care, all
Doran Forzane: no even with the sim Time dilation
Mar Dwi: there's a lot of land for sale on this region. The sim owners are very nice and professional and the land isn't expensive. If you're looking for land, I like to have artistic neighbours
Sasun Steinbeck: :)
Mar Dwi: and as you can see. we don't have a lot of lag
Sasun Steinbeck: yeah the sim held up great
Zena Zemlja: ok, I get a call, need to go, be well everyone
Zena Zemlja waves and poofs
Sasun Steinbeck: byeeee
Sasun Steinbeck: that was fun! Thanks again Mar
Doran Forzane: Reason mar your lag is down, is because there is empty parcels. Also you dont allow scritps to run on this parcel which means all that exspensive lag inducing Agent costs reduce
Mar Dwi: Yeah, that does make a diference Doran